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BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#29801: Nov 28th 2015 at 10:32:57 PM

I have to say, having Piccolo almost take out Babidi was pretty cool, even if it wasn't much of a fight.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29802: Nov 28th 2015 at 10:36:50 PM

The anime at least tried to make it into a fight (it was weird and sucked but whatever). That being Piccolo's fight for the Buu Saga would've been kind of cool if Babidi had put up a fight.

edited 28th Nov '15 10:37:23 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#29803: Nov 28th 2015 at 10:37:25 PM

What would I change?

Uh...well I don't want to change anything for the sake of it. I would probably change the questionable actions by the characters in order to advance the plot probably.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29804: Nov 28th 2015 at 10:47:42 PM

The only thing I could think to change is to tone down the misogyny and make Roshi less of a sex criminal. At the very least give him restraint around underage girls.

I don't particularly mind the erratic by-the-seat-of-your-pants style.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29805: Nov 28th 2015 at 10:49:27 PM

In canon, he's not. AT ALL. And 16 is legal even in some U.S. states!

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29806: Nov 28th 2015 at 10:54:18 PM

Being a peeping tom IS a crime, which he does in the manga. So is sexual harassment.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29807: Nov 28th 2015 at 10:56:39 PM

This was the 80s. In JAPAN. It could've been MUCH worse.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29808: Nov 28th 2015 at 10:57:37 PM

It also could've been much better.

Seriously, never try to use "it could be worse" as an argument to claim something is good.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29809: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:00:26 PM

[up][up] That doesn't mean he isn't a sex criminal and it's not something that could have been changed.

I don't believe the manga is misogynistic but I do agree Anom that Roshi's behavior should be changed. The perverted humour in general, just could be cut.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29810: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:01:59 PM

The series moved past that. The most Roshi does nowadays is suggest buying porn.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#29811: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:02:15 PM

Yeah, still having Goku as the main character after he's married, had two kids, and is quickly approaching middle age is kind of odd.

I actually like that a lot, and find it really unique as far as Shonen manga go.

My one change would be to have Gotenks defeat Super Buu as a Super Saiyan 3 right there in the Hyperbolic time chamber. It would continue the trend of Goku's kids saving the world as a part of his plan, and allow Gotenks to actually justify his existence and the time spent on him.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29812: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:02:29 PM

[up][up]And I'm glad it did, but it would have been better to never go there in the first place.

[up] I don't think I'd like that change very much. It's too easy, and you'd have to cut everything Gohan is doing on the side which makes the plot too straightforward. Goku suggests fusion, they have a slight hiccup with Boo not waiting, but the RoSaT solves that and fusion wins.

I feel Gotenks is entertaining and funny enough to justify it even without him succeeding.

edited 28th Nov '15 11:04:22 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29813: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:04:52 PM

I'm saying it was acceptable at the time and place it happened. Don't condemn a series for a fault that only existed after the fact.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29814: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:07:24 PM

I'm saying that is utter bullshit. It never "became" a fault, it always was one that people just hadn't acknowledged previously. I can understand why it is that way, but I will absolutely not refrain from criticizing it.

It was only acceptable because the time and place was unacceptable. That isn't worth shit for me.

edited 28th Nov '15 11:08:18 PM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29815: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:07:58 PM

I don't think Roshi being a pervert is an issue. It can be funny if done right.

But asking a girl to flash her panties, spying on people, ect., is not doing it right.

Again, the Abridged series does a good job keeping him in line without totally neutering him. Though skipping Dragon Ball probably helps in that regard.

And by misogynistic I just mean things like the "get back in the kitchen" approach to 18 and Gine in recent media mostly. Granted, that's outside the original manga.

[down]Yeah, that's what I mean.

edited 28th Nov '15 11:10:25 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29816: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:09:01 PM

Oh, he can absolutely be a pervert still as long as it doesn't involve him harassing other people. Stick to him reading porn mags and whatever and it's fine.

[up] Oh yeah I definitely would say the current things have taken a turn for the misogynistic.

edited 28th Nov '15 11:20:08 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29817: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:16:43 PM

Society decides what is right, what is wrong, and what is merely acceptable. In Japan's society in the 80s, that was acceptable. Nowadays, it is wrong.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29818: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:22:21 PM

Being part of a culture that accepts that does not excuse also accepting that. People can think for themselves.

That view basically says the majority would be right, regardless of their views. Whether inherent morality exists is a debatable concept however I would definitely say that view is wrong.

Hell, Japan still doesn't really see those things as wrong, it's just censored what is shown in children's media. That doesn't make it any more justified.

edited 28th Nov '15 11:23:18 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29819: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:24:23 PM

To answer my own question, I'd go for a less frantic setting in general. From Frieza, to Cell, to Buu and likely before that I just can't remember, there was so much moving around to defeat the villain this one way, only to abruptly move to method or opponent.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#29820: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:27:06 PM

I don't think I'd like that change very much. It's too easy, and you'd have to cut everything Gohan is doing on the side which makes the plot too straightforward. Goku suggests fusion, they have a slight hiccup with Boo not waiting, but the Ro Sa T solves that and fusion wins.

I feel Gotenks is entertaining and funny enough to justify it even without him succeeding.

It's good to hear another opinion. To be honest, the only other choice I could come up with is removing the Potara. This would force Goku and Vegeta to use the Dance.

edited 28th Nov '15 11:39:52 PM by VeryMelon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29821: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:28:47 PM

I have no problem with Roshi's character because I recognize it as a product of the times (and location).

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29822: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:32:14 PM

[up][up] I also like this idea, because I really don't like the potara.

If "Gogeta" uses Super Saiyan 3, you can even justify the de-fusion pretty easily as they'd have less time fused.

It'd also feel like so much of an Ass Pull because the dance is an established thing by the time Goku and Vegeta use it. And then Gotenks is actually more important for basically breaking in the concept before it's actually used to accomplish something.

edited 28th Nov '15 11:33:15 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29823: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:33:22 PM

Is Super Saiyan 3 draining fusion time actually in the manga? I don't remember it being in.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29824: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:34:14 PM

It's not a question of whether the society of the time deemed it acceptable, or if there's some kind of objective standard of acceptability.

I deem it unacceptable, therefore to me it is bad and I would change it if I were in a position to do so.

edited 28th Nov '15 11:36:04 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29825: Nov 28th 2015 at 11:35:25 PM

Yes. It's also the cause of their being a wait time between fusions - normal fusion can be re-done right away after it wears off, Super Saiyan 3 fusion lasts 5 minutes and creates a 1 hour period before it can be done again.

Which would explain why Goku and Vegeta couldn't instantly resolve things with Pure Boo by fusing again, if that were the only method.

I feel this change would be very good with the series, and aside with the problem with Gohan (both how he's treated and how he could easily be used to solve things) it would basically fix the post-potara portion of the arc. Definitely more preferable to the version we got.

edited 28th Nov '15 11:36:43 PM by Saiga


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