Inspired by this thread
, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.
As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.
So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.
The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.
Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM
Eh, that's the sort of trope where while we could certainly go on a cleanup effort, I think it'd be fine to just redefine and move on.
But we're getting off topic.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallIt is best to put Take That! to TRS. I am in favour of creating a new trope called Take That Public Figure and prohibiting real-life examples within the past 50 years to avoid ROCEJ.
Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 9th 2024 at 8:51:51 AM
Kirby is awesome.I don't think that's necessary. Many works make jabs at current politicians, celebrities, etc., and it's very possible to record that neutrally without getting into heated political/personal details. I'd rather just expand Take That!, broad as it may be (though if I were to narrow it, I'd narrow it to gratuitous throwaway lines mocking the thing as opposed to, say, entire episodes about it).
Generally I would call that misuse anyway as it should refer to works — people insulting each other outside of works of entertainment is too common and pointlessly inflammatory to list, not to mention political ads. But the split idea feels like it won't solve anything substantially and reminds me of all those old Acceptable Targets subtropes.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 9th 2024 at 10:05:51 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Granted I feel some of the examples of Take That! can be vague and general. Like look at these 2:
- The Zenerengers as a whole are a dig on diversity-approved, politically correct organizations that signal how virtuous they are, but have no real virtues of their own. The Zenerengers are written as only being good guys on the surface level, while actually being full-on villains. Also, they can't stand each other, often making digs at each other for their differences, and making it clear they're only being forced to work together for the optics of it.
- The "Fight the Light" protestors are a dig at not only Climate Change protestors, but also BLM and Covid Mask protestors. They are depicted as dumb, aggressive, and easily manipulated, falling easily for Cynthia's scene, insulting and attacking people who disagree or question them, and being unable to see the flaws of light pollution/suits.
Like neither of these examples are single jabs, these are entire characters and groups whose entire storylines and presence revolves around criticizing people who believe certain things, which again is really broad and vague.
Bringing this up from Just Here for Godzilla. The entry itself is already whiny as is, but the note makes it even worse.
- For those people not sold on Generation 5 and its divisive premise note probably only watched the beginning of My Little Pony: A New Generation to see the Mane Six for one final time.
Bumping
my Neptunia old YMMV examples.
I wouldn't say "removed" (except for the Vert Character Perception Evolution example) as I'd rather rewrite them in a more neutral tone
Bringing this up from the Live-Action Films page for Just Here for Godzilla. On top of natter, it's a wall of text that reads in parts like the troper is just giving you their opinions on the film.
- The biggest complaint about the live-action Transformers Film Series is the focus on the humans. Optimus Prime doesn't even get introduced in the first movie until an hour in. There are subplots that lead to nothing and very scatological humans. Transformers: Revenge of The Fallen is a little better, offering flashy fights in the beginning, middle and end, but all the time between that is just waffle. This is something the Transformers producers have long failed to grasp. Fans are just here for the robots, and it's an extremely rare human who catches on with viewers of any age. The adults who were annoyed by Spike and Daniel may be the Periphery Demographic now, but they were kids when they first watched. With the newer series, for every Sari, there's three Sams or Kickers whose not-remotely-interesting home lives are only unwanted interruptions to the giant-robot-armies-at-war thing everyone really came for, and any scene with them will be considered Filler. The humans who do get popular are never the Tagalong Kids who get all the screentime, and it's hard to know if the kids liked Simmons or Fowler as much as we do.
- Transformers: Age of Extinction, the fourth live-action film, had a much better balance and gave its robots bigger screen and story-presence, to the point where some fans regard this as the first "true" Transformers movie in the series. That said, the movie still suffered because while it offered many things for fans to be excited about (most importantly, the Dinobots), many claimed that it was far too long to be worth the effort, and the much-promoted Dinobots were only put in as an afterthought. As a whole, though, general moviegoers loved it just like the first three, and critics kept mourning the death of cinema.
- Many Transformers fans rushed out to see Bumblebee just for the opening battle sequence set on Cybertron, which depicts multiple popular Autobots and Decepticons—including Optimus Prime, Arcee, Starscream and Soundwave—looking exactly like the original toys. While the film's main story got plenty of praise from critics, it's considerably more modest in scope, and mostly centers on Bumblebee battling two relatively obscure Decepticon villains.
I don’t think anyone considers Age of Extinction the first "true" Transformers movie, let alone better than the movies before it in any way. It does seem like the first box also descends into a rant about Human characters in Transformers. I’d say cut the Age of Extinction example, but keep the Bumblebee example, since that was a famous Continuity Cavalcade for the franchise's fandom.
The first block could be rewritten like this:
- The biggest complaint about the live-action Transformers Film Series is the focus on the humans. Optimus Prime doesn't even get introduced in the first movie until an hour in. Throughout all the films, there are subplots involving solely the humans, some of whom are heavily disliked because of it. While there is a Periphery Demographic for the human characters (since they have existed even in the original series), the main issue fans have is that they are unwanted interruptions to the giant robot war the series is best known as, and what many fans come to see.
Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Jul 11th 2024 at 4:48:35 AM
Do not mess with creatures which you do not understand.I found this on Characters.Descendants:
- Continuity Snarl: When his parents are introduced in Rise of Red, they are revealed to be black and Filipino respectively, while he is white and it's easy to tell this wasn't planned.
This doesn't explain how it is a Continuity Snarl and that last bit just reads like an excuse to complain. Is it just me?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
It's under the Chad Charming entry and you'd also be correct - having seen the first film and being loosely familiar with the lore, it doesn't go into that much detail on his backstory so it can be reasonable to assume he may have been adopted (it also works well considering Cinderella herself was adopted by her stepmom after both her parents died).
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Definitely cut for the reason I've mentioned above and also for misuse.
From Will & Grace:
- Straight Gay: The producers think Will is. Again, though, see Fair for Its Day. Will was a mostly-sitcom-normal guy who had the occasional camp element pop up for laughs - during a time when the world heard ‘gay’ and thought of someone like Jack. Fast forward a decade, though, and he's a Camp Gay whose buddy just happens to be doubly so. However, Will's boyfriend Vince is more successful at pulling off Straight Gay.
It's a badly written paragraph, and it has a point that Will comes across as Camp Gay today when he was intended to be understated, but there should be a better way to put it.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.It doesn't even explain what traits Will has that make him Straight Gay or Camp Gay, so it's low-context too.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.An example shouldn't refer to other examples, either.
The truth is, Will had camp elements and more "straight" elements as well. He doesnt fit neatly into either trope because sometimes characters don't exactly fit one box or the other. If you must, i suppose you could call him a downplayed example of straight gay.
Here are my finalized rewrites of my old Neptunia YMMV examples:
YMMV.Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory
- Base-Breaking Character:
- While received much better in the West than she is in Japan, Plutia is a heavily divisive character amongst fans for the way she's displayed throughout the game. Some find her amusing for carrying the game's best moments through her lovable ditziness and dark sense of humor, and the idea of an Anti-Hero CPU - something that hasn't been touched upon since then - was a pretty cool concept. Others find her annoying for dragging out the game through her laziness and idiocy, and the sadisim she displays in both forms made her come across as too aggressive and unlikable, especially when she targets her allies for very petty and self-satisfying reasons. It doesn't help that unlike the previous Planeptune CPUs, she doesn't develop beyond her traits nor do we have a lot of information about her.
- Broken Base: While the gameplay is universally considered a step-up from the previous installments, it couldn't hold up story-wise. Some like it's more humorous, light-hearted, and off-beat tone compared to the bleak and serious mk2; the way the new and returning characters bounce off from each other; and the exploration of The '80s video game industry in the form of the Ultra Dimension. Others hate it for being too comedic at even in the more tense situations, with its use of comedy being significantly more mean-spirited than in other games (e.g. Iris Heart tormenting her allies on a daily basis, Nepgear getting mistreated by even her own sister, et al); the returning characters either having their flaws Flanderized or acting out-of-character while the new characters coming off as bland at best; and the Ultra Dimension's portrayal of the 80s industry suffering through Artistic License – History.
- Designated Hero:
- Plutia, especially as Iris Heart. While the game portrays her as an Anti-Hero who punishes those who have done wrong, and is fundamentally a good person who cares deeply for her allies, even if she doesn't show it, most of her time is spent on her abusing her authority as a CPU to get what she wants and coercing anyone who gets in her way, including her teammates. Even the heroic moment she does have are done for self-gratifying reasons. None of these actions go addressed or are called-out in the story, nor does she show awareness of how harmful her behavior is.
- Neptune herself is significantly more of a jerk than in previous and subsequent games, from constantly belittling her friends at any given moment (especially Noire), to treating her sister Nepgear harshly, even going so far as to let the latter get tortured by Iris Heart. Outside from a few What the Hell, Hero? callouts, she's never at any point punished for her behavior. The most infamous example is the Good End route, where she leaves Nepgear in the Ultra Dimension for ten years, and deliberately lets Plutia to transform and attack the welcoming Uni, Ram and Rom (the latter two being the resident Token Mini-Moes of the main cast), leaving all three traumatized.
- Designated Monkey: Nepgear's recharacterization as a Butt-Monkey who is regularly insulted and abused by everyone (including Neptune herself) was one of the more controversial aspects of the game, as it not only regresses her Character Development in her debut game, but it was done in response to her initial Base-Breaking Character status. The scenes where she's tortured by Iris Heart for briefly joining Vert's side, with Neptune not even batting an eye and thinks it is justified because Vert gave her sisterly affection, and is abandoned by Neptune in the Good Ending when Neptune prioritizes her safety over sleeping with Plutia, leaving Nepgear stranded in the Ultra Dimension for over a decade, are commonly cited as one of the game's cruelest moments by some.
YMMV.Megadimension Neptunia VII
- Broken Base:
- Blanc's dream in the Heart Dimension, showcasing a version of her with a larger bust size and an egotistical personality to go with it, has caused a significant divide in the fan base (at least in the West). To some, when compared to the other CPUs dreams that emphasized on their Hidden Depths in a heartwarming light, the scene felt like a slap in the face for the character who was defined by more than just her chest insecurities, the fact that she spent most of her arc getting along with C-Sha despite knowing the latter has a bigger chest than her, and that Blanc having the A-Cup Angst was a Running Gag established since the very beginning, making the punchline all the more predictable and tiresome. To others, it's a reflection of her hinted body image issues. Blanc has been shown to be highly sensitive when her breasts are derided and ridiculed by other characters (namely Vert, but also Neptune to a lesser extent), so much so that she sees herself as too "unfit" to receive any forms of attraction. Her wish of wanting to be just like Vert, in both appearance and personality, is her way of wanting the attention she deserves, even with the knowledge that her nation prefers her regular petite build because it makes her stand out.
- Fridge Sadness: During the Heart Dimension arc when the other CPUs are trapped in Kurome's Lotus-Eater Machine, Blanc's biggest desire is revealed to be a version of her with a voluptuous figure, complete with a Big-Breast Pride personality not to disimilar to Vert's. While the scene is meant to be a joke, the fact that her only desire in life is to have a figure on-par with the other CPUs makes the scene more pitiful than funny when you remember that Blanc has been made fun of for her small bust size throughout her entire existence. With that in mind, seeing Blanc wish to have an ample bosom like her friends is like someone with body image issues who can't accept themselves for who they are.
- More Popular Replacement: Uzume succeeds Plutia as the deuteragonist Planeptune CPU from another dimension, but is far more beloved than the latter in-part for being overall more likable and genuinely heroic. A major factor to Plutia's Base-Breaking Character status was how she would get away with abusing heroes and villains (the former she's supposed to be sided with) in her HDD form, while also using said form as a threat to get what she wants, which made her a Designated Hero in the eyes of detractors. Uzume, while Hot-Blooded, has a strong sense of duty towards her loved ones and sacrifices herself to save the world, making her a much more respectable CPU in the eyes of fans.
YMMV.Neptunia
- Base-Breaking Character (third bulletin)
- Plutia, and her CPU form Iris Heart, is one of the most divisive character in the series, especially in Victory. Fans like her human form for being cute, kind, friendly, and having several funny moments, and her HDD form for being a combination of Good Is Not Soft and a Dominatrix-type Ms. Fanservice. Detractors, meanwhile, dislike her for being a lazy Idiot Hero whose contribution only happens because the plot says so; a borderline sociopathic bully who abuses the fact that she's The Dreaded by both her enemies and her friends to get away with things that are considerably worse than what the actual villains do (such as sadistically torturing Noire, Nepgear, and the Candidates in the "Good" Ending); and a Fetishized Abuser who is heavily implied to have raped her victims. While her other appearances are considered fine at best (MegaTagmension, 4 Goddesses Online) or a major step-up from her debut game (The Animation, VS Sega Hard Girls to a lesser extent), her role in Victory has cemented her status as the series' most contested CPU.
- Character Perception Evolution: When she first debuted in mk2, Nepgear was one of the more divisive characters in the game, specifically in the West. While she still has her fans, she was disliked for her constant Wangst for the first half, and her sudden shift into an Invincible Hero after acquiring her CPU powers came off as too absurd and unbelievable, feeling that her story and character was a step-down from the previous game's protagonist, Neptune. The infamous Conquest Ending didn't do any favors either, as her actions throughout the ending forever tainted how everyone viewed the character. This led Nepgear being recharacterized twice: the first time as a Butt-Monkey who is disrespected by even her sister, and the second time as a robot-loving Gadgeteer Genius after fans felt the former was an insult to the character. Years after the game released however, many reevaluated her mk2 self, noting that while flawed, she was still kind-hearted to everyone around her, and was overall more diligent and mature than her older sister Neptune (who would rather slack off than do her job and would often come off as mean and arrogant). Nowadays, she is regarded as one of the most popular characters in the entire series on par with Noire, Uni, and even Neptune herself.
- Never Live It Down:
- Some fans refuse to forgive Plutia and Neptune for their actions in Victory, the former for being a Designated Hero and a Karma Houdini who would abuse her power to get what she wants, the latter for Taking a Level in Jerkass and becoming a selfish and irresponsible guardian and an Aloof Big Sister who callously mistreats Nepgear after spending the previous game giving her love and affection. While Plutia was eventually alleviated in the anime adaptation and subsequent appearances, and Neptune would be rerailed back to her original, nicer characterization beginning in the Re;Birth trilogy and VII, the controversial characterizations combined with Victory's overall tepid reception still leaves a black mark in the fan base to this day.
The other entries mentioned here
(Hype Backlash, and Vert's entries on Character Perception Evolution and They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character) will be cut.

If I'm not mistaken, there was discussion about a possible Take That! TRS a while back. It'd be a huge project though at 23,000+ wicks.
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