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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#1901: Oct 1st 2019 at 9:01:55 PM

You are doing God's work lalalei. That page is pure hatred.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#1902: Oct 2nd 2019 at 6:06:47 AM

I had no idea For Better or for Worse had such a big hatedom. XD;

The Protomen enhanced my life.
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#1903: Oct 6th 2019 at 9:48:38 PM

I can't help ut feel that a lot of added material to general YMMV page of Star Vs Forces of Evil and YMMV of the finale of the series "Cleaved" is just a bunch of extremely long complaining and bashing.

Here are examples:

From general YMMV:

Unintentionally Unsympathetic:

Glossaryck. Initially introduced as Star's tutor, he provided "useless" information to Marco in season one, and speaks in riddles that often confuse Star while teaching her at the same time. Instead of coming off as a sympathetic ally, he comes off more as an unlikable Jerkass Wild Card. His role in "Page Turner" where he was supposed to be in the right and "Book Be Gone" where he is supposed to be pitied both fall on deaf ears with many feeling he brings the bad things upon himself.

Marco throughout most of Season 3 falls into this. He leaves everyone he loves and cares for on Earth to go to Mewni to be with Star, pretty much dropping into her home life unannounced, all because he wants to feel special. The fact that, most of the time when the show tries to paint him in the right or make him feel guilty, he's either hypocritical or the other person's points have more validity. And that's not even getting into "Booth Buddies".

He also falls into this in "Cleaved", as Star never told him that magic would return everybody back to their proper dimension, so he also willingly abandoned his family and friends on Earth who, mind you, wouldn't have known where he was or what was of him. Pony Head really follows this trope to a tee, mainly from how she acts like an entitled brat who never really grows from her experiences, and always thinks she's right. Almost any time she's meant to be seen as a victim, like in "Skooled" and "Bam Ui Pati!", she's more like an Asshole Victim who deserves what she got.

The Spiderbites, or at least the King and Queen. While their hatred towards Globgor is understandable for the fact he killed their ancestor, said ancestor was King Shastacan, possibly as much of an Asshole Victim as it could get and they act passive-aggressively the whole time they are visiting Star and Eclipsa about it.

Star has had this problem since the beginning, but she really falls into this in Season 4. Despite the increasing issues with her relationship with Tom due to her hiding the fact she kissed Marco from him, Star repeatedly refuses to acknowledge her shortcomings and either turns the accusations back on the accuser, or tries to runaway from the problem entirely. Outside of Tom, her attempts at maintaining the moral high ground when dealing with Eclipsa often fall flat due to the numerous bouts of hypocrisy she exhibits, primarily in regards to demanding trust from Eclipsa despite offering none herself and scolding her for not caring what her people think of her, even though a part of Star's growth as a princess and future queen had been about becoming her own kind of ruler and doing things her own way while being true to herself and doing what feels right to her even if others don't agree. It's taken to its extreme in Tavern at the End of the Multiverse. Once Star has decided that magic needs to be destroyed to prevent the completion of Mina's genocide of the monsters, her only concern is the fact that doing so will force Marco back to Earth and make them incapable of seeing each other again. This in spite of the fact that doing so will not only rob all life of magic, not just Mewni, but will also kill everything reliant on magic to live, including Glossaryck, the Firstborn Unicorn, and presumably Hekapoo. Arguably even considering this launches Star straight into Well-Intentioned Extremist territory at best, given that there are a number of beings made of magic in the multiverse (the Spells, the Magic High Commission, and everything still living in the Magic Dimension, for a start) and she'll presumably be killing all of them solely to save one country (hers) in one dimension (hers), a genocide comparable to Mina's if not arguably worse due to its larger and further-reaching scope. Yet Star's only concern is that she won't get to see Marco ever again.n*** The series finale, "Cleaved," somehow took this even further. She goes through with destroying magic, essentially killing an unknown number of magical beings and anyone heavily dependent on magic to live. Not helped is the fact that, by stopping the villain's plan of genocide through committing a different genocide, the episode's demonstrated a Moral Myopia that renders the moral difference between Star and Mina arbitrary at best. And during this, not only was Star's only concern the possibility that she would never see Marco again, but she was willing to abandon her family and friends on Mewni solely to be with him, regardless of any potential trauma they could have succumbed to. The extremely morally dubious nature of both of these decisions rocked the fanbase so much that a portion genuinely began questioning whether Star became something like a villain herself.

Relationship Writing Fumble: Star and Marco are the intended Official Couple that the show spends its time working towards, while Star and Tom's relationship is a Romantic False Lead. However, a segment of the fanbase believed that the former pairing was a more platonic relationship. Meanwhile, the latter pairing spends so much time together, and had so many chances to break up that had them reconciling instead, that the idea of the series subverting the tendency of opposite sex leads ending up together to have Tomstar as the final pairing rather than Starco wasn't seen as unrealistic by the fanbase.

Romantic Plot Tumor:

Season 3 seemed obsessed with making shipping fans of the show as upset and confused as possible. Starting off, Star likes Marco but has to go back to Mewni, and Marco likes Star but is dating Jackie, but she dumps him, allowing Marco to move to Mewni to be near Star. Unfortunately, Star has gotten over Marco and is now back together with her ex-boyfriend Tom, despite just one episode prior still being obsessively in love with Marco and hating Tom. Meanwhile, while Marco is still pining for Star, the side characters of Kelly and Tad break up for the umpteenth time, but say this time is the final time, leading Kelly and Marco to have their own Ship Tease, in spite of the characters having very little interaction beforehand. The heavy and confusing teasing of several pairings simultaneously takes the focus off more lore-related plot lines, including the highly advertised Eclipsa plot, on which she just appears at random in other episodes (getting a grand total of only 3 episodes in the first half of Season 3) as a new mentor for Star and her intentions and plan still unexplained.

While Season 4 doesn't neglect the Myth Arc as much as Season 3, it continues the trend Season 3 began by stretching the romantic plot further and further despite telegraphing a "Starco" ending. In addition to showing the rocky nature of Star and Tom's relationship, primarily due to Star, the show offers numerous moments for the two to break up only to perpetuate the relationship. Then, Marco and Kelly get together in a g-rated version of Friends with Benefits so they can move on from their former flames, only for it to be brought up for only a single episode before they abruptly break up off-screen. Just as the hyped episode Beach Day appears to be setting up the moment they finally get together, it turns out to be a Red Herring and they remain friends. Quite a few were upset that the romance between Marco and Star was intertwined with the resolution of the Myth Arc and the battle against Mina, as Star and Tom broke up only 5 episodes before the end of the series, leading many to feel it was a rushed Last Minute Hookup.

From Cleaved YMMV:

Inferred Holocaust: Where to begin?!

What happened to Spider with a Top Hat and the other spells that lived within the wand dimension when the magic was destroyed?

Also, if the magic dimension provided magic to all dimensions, what happened to magic entities from other dimensions outside Mewni? We know that the Magic High Commission faded out of existence.

How will everyone cope with the merging of realities? A giant spider just annexed the Morrison's (from "Heinous") from their home. How are people going to handle a migration on this scale?

Going with the above, Mina is alive and well and is all too familiar with Earth and its people. There's a high chance that the rebellion that happened in Mewni will repeat itself with Earth on a massive scale. Just imagine the scenario that happened in "Starstruck" where Mina allows the residents of Echo Creek to vote on whether she became Earth's ruler but now with monsters on the loose. Given the culture shock, Mina could actually win this time and restart her war with Earth's people willing to take their home back (rightfully so this time) and with weapons even more devastating than magic.

Toffee's species and others like them are still out there, and even when Comet nearly ended things peacefully chose to murder her and restart conflict. It's highly unlikely all monsters will be fine with the Mewmans and some will in all likelihood see it as the perfect chance to seek revenge. And without magic, the Septarians are completely impossible to actually kill.

Rhombulus is dead and all magic is gone... so what's keeping all of his prisoners imprisoned? While it's true he had a habit of imprisoning people for the wrong reasons, many of his prisoners were prisoners for good reason.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Oct 6th 2019 at 7:49:00 PM

RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
#1904: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:31:16 AM

From a cursory glance, all of the above have issues of natter, reference previous bullet points (which is a big no-no, considering that things get rearranged/removed all the time), and are far too long for a casual reader to comfortably sift through. Those alone warrant an axe.

Since I'm not familiar with either work, I can't speak for their accuracy. From past experience, however, the longer the example, the more of a shoehorn it is.

Edited by RoundRobin on Oct 7th 2019 at 4:31:56 PM

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#1905: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:38:29 AM

Especially in YMMV, in my experience.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1906: Oct 7th 2019 at 10:09:12 AM

I want to cut those on the "too damn long to read" principle alone.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1908: Oct 7th 2019 at 11:30:55 AM

Yes and cite this thread.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Stage7-4 Since: Nov, 2014
#1909: Oct 7th 2019 at 12:18:33 PM

For context the Star Vs The Forces of Evil ending was pretty universally controversial (to the point that the creators themselves had to respond about some of the issues). It's not too much of an overstatement to say it was a mini Game of Thrones in terms of reception.

So while nearly all that bashing was factually accurate, I agree that it's just way too looooooooooooong.

While I wouldn't know where to begin on cleaning up the main page, at least on the Cleaved YMMV for Inferred Holocaust I'd say something like "the logistics of fusing the earth and other realms together and the destruction of all magic (and magical life) raise disturbing and at times horrifying implications" and leave it at that.

Edited by Stage7-4 on Oct 7th 2019 at 12:26:36 PM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#1910: Oct 7th 2019 at 11:00:10 PM

I deleted all of it. Also this part

* Strangled by the Red String: The popular "Starco" pairing ultimately suffers from this. For the first season and first half of season two, a good portion of Star and Marco's relationship can be interpreted less as romantic and more along the lines of Like Brother and Sister; Star being the adventurous hyperactive one, and Marco being the more responsible one to offset her. However, the second half of Season 2 began heavily pushing the idea that Star had romantic feelings for Marco, despite her behavior not visibly changing outside of some Clingy Jealous Girl moments, and continuing to hold obvious feelings for her crush Oskar. Afterwards, numerous characters, regardless of how well they knew Star or Marco, began claiming they could tell the two had feelings for each other, despite the lack of anything visible outside of friendship. This includes Marco's own father questioning his son as to why he's dating Jackie instead of Star. While Star getting back together with Tom was at first implied to be her attempt at getting over Marco, she ends up actually falling back in love with the fire demon. Meanwhile, Marco's relationship with Jackie fails, with her implying that he's actually in love with Star, something he doesn't acknowledge until Tad states it more directly a few episodes later. By season four, we're in an Unrequited Love Switcheroo, with Marco having feelings for Star while the other is happily in a relationship. Marco briefly enters a G-rated version of Friends with Benefits with Kelly, breaking-up with her offscreen. By time "Curse of the Blood Moon" came around, it's turned Up To Eleven, with Marco displaying odd behavior towards Star he had never displayed before, and while the idea is raised that it wasn't the Blood Moon that caused their feelings for one another, their relationship ends up returning back to how it was in earlier seasons once the curse is broken, albeit a bit strained. But once Star and Tom break up, by Tom's decision rather than Star's, and the group is in the Magic Dimension, Marco is suddenly stating he likes being close to Star since he's in love with her, despite their relationship again coming off as Like Brother and Sister. At this point, Season 4 had only five episodes left that were more focused on wrapping up the Myth Arc, making the potential relationship come across less as the characters genuinely being in love with each other, and more along the lines of the narrative pushing them together for the sake of having the main characters end up together.

Feels like really misusing the trope.

RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
#1911: Oct 8th 2019 at 3:46:15 AM

[up] That's a single bullet point?!?

Is it even worth our time to go through it and see if there's anything salvageable in that mess? Just kill with fire and start over.

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1912: Oct 8th 2019 at 4:08:59 AM

[up][up]Toss it in the trash.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#1913: Oct 8th 2019 at 6:54:02 AM

Okay, really? Nuking the whole thing because its a little wordy? I'm the one who wrote a lot of those entries up on the main YMMV, and yeah, I have an issue with being concise, but just because its wordy shouldn't be justification to nuke to entire thing.

There is a reason this is a YMMV page, and those entries were all within the bounds of the tropes they were listed under, and were accurate representations of the fanbase being in discourse after the finale. But to just throw it all away instead of see if it can be salvaged/shortened in any way is just idiotic.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1914: Oct 8th 2019 at 7:14:27 AM

Tbh if it takes this much words to get to the point than its probably misuse since I honestly have no clue what some of these entries have even said.

Toss it

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#1915: Oct 8th 2019 at 7:28:09 AM

Yeah, toss it. It reads like a single fan's manifesto on why they didn't like the pairing.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
DuchessSnow Since: Jan, 2019
#1916: Oct 8th 2019 at 7:58:21 AM

Couldn't all of that be revised? A good portion of the information that was removed had been accurate.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#1917: Oct 8th 2019 at 9:00:28 AM

There is a reason this is a YMMV page, and those entries were all within the bounds of the tropes they were listed under, and were accurate representations of the fanbase being in discourse after the finale.

Problem is:

1) These entries seem to be more bashing than actual discussion about controversy

2) The whole thing makes it feel like WHOLE fanbase think this way, despite large portion of it thinking otherwise on some of those topics (i checked)

3) Again the whole thing looks like few fans whining about Starco happening and misusing tropes

RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
#1918: Oct 8th 2019 at 12:07:12 PM

[...]but just because its wordy shouldn't be justification to nuke to entire thing.

...Yeah, it kinda is. Natter is a big no-no, especially when it condenses into a massive Wall of Text like the one written to justify the aforementioned example. Entries should be Clear, Concise, Witty, in that order. Take a look at the page, if you wish to re-add the examples.

Regardless, my exact words were "kill it with fire and start over" instead of wasting time trying to trim all the natter.


[up][up] If you want to revise the examples, then go for it.

Edited by RoundRobin on Oct 8th 2019 at 10:11:40 PM

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
razorrozar7 Migrated to Chloe Jessica! from Chloe Jessica Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
#1919: Oct 8th 2019 at 12:10:36 PM

even if it's not misuse, an entry that long frankly hurts the readability of the page, and would need trimming even if it was kept.

Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#1920: Oct 8th 2019 at 1:53:51 PM

[up][up]Understandable then. I guess I had a misconception about natter. Something I admit I have issues with is being concise, since I tend to go into long diatribes to make sure there are no misconceptions about what is being said.

I'd be happy if someone would be willing to edit it to keep the overall message while shortening it though. I'd do it, but as we've pretty much established, I'm not really concise.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
razorrozar7 Migrated to Chloe Jessica! from Chloe Jessica Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
#1921: Oct 8th 2019 at 2:05:48 PM

Falcon, you seem to have a tendency to include every little detail, which while nice for those interested isn't going to mean much to the average reader. most of the writing minutiae can be completely excised and still get the point across. something like:

  • Romantic Plot Tumor: In earlier seasons, Star and Marco's relationship was mostly presented as Like Brother and Sister. Later on, it was taken in a more romantic direction, but was written very inconsistently, and by the time the show ended it seemed like they were being pushed together just for the sake of having the main characters be together.

you see how that provides essentially the same information and perspective while being much more concise?

Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
WhirlRX Since: Jan, 2015
#1922: Oct 8th 2019 at 2:57:00 PM

[up]I would honestly write that the Marco romance , and romance in general, took a lot of screen time during season 3. The same season that introduced Eclipsa who didn't have that many episodes despite the hype surrounding her appearance

razorrozar7 Migrated to Chloe Jessica! from Chloe Jessica Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
#1923: Oct 8th 2019 at 3:01:49 PM

[up]fair enough; i don't know the show, so my write up was entirely based on information from Falcon's. if you or another fan would like to take a crack at it, be my guest; that's better than a non-fan doing it anyway. mine was as much for the purpose of example as anything.

Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#1924: Oct 10th 2019 at 7:40:53 PM

The They Changed It, Now It Sucks! and They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character entries on YMMV.Team Sonic Racing sound too whiny.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Oct 10th 2019 at 7:41:22 AM

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal

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