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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, YKTTW or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

Edited by Berrenta on Dec 19th 2018 at 6:31:01 AM

WarJay77 Normal McNormalson from Upstate New York Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Normal McNormalson
Jun 18th 2019 at 12:21:37 AM

[up] I'd personally say it most definitely is, but this isn't the place to debate this.

The example...I'm not sure. It doesn't sound too biased and ranty, more just stating what happened to the video...

Female troper who likes Pokemon, ARGs, Writing, and more. / Links: Sandbox.Zero Context Example Thread - Sandbox.Roleplay Cleanup Thread
RAlexa21th Angel Flare, ready to go! from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Angel Flare, ready to go!
Jun 18th 2019 at 12:38:14 AM

It's an unnecessary detail put in here to sneak in a complaint.

WarJay77 Normal McNormalson from Upstate New York Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Normal McNormalson
Jun 18th 2019 at 1:15:27 AM

[up] I guess it's possible I'm just biased in this regard. If everyone else wants to get rid of it, I'm not opposed.

Female troper who likes Pokemon, ARGs, Writing, and more. / Links: Sandbox.Zero Context Example Thread - Sandbox.Roleplay Cleanup Thread
nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Jun 18th 2019 at 1:40:26 AM

Non-trope information on a trivia page seems like something we have or not on a case-by-case basis. Being used for complaining is definitely in the 'not' case. I say delete it.

Yabukuron Supersonic Woman from Isshu Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Supersonic Woman
Jun 19th 2019 at 12:01:09 AM

would this be the wrong place to mention/ask about removing/rewording an offensive entry containing hate speech left on a locked page? I was going to suggest 2 things to add to it as long as it existed, but then I saw an entry that upset me is still here. I know Theres the locked edit request thread but i'm not sure which one this fits more under

I'm a shooting star leaping through the sky like a tiger, defying the laws of gravity
SeptimusHeap from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Jun 19th 2019 at 12:02:35 AM

Such a question is better off in the locked pages thread, IMO. This thread deals more with generic complaining, not stuff that requires staff attention.

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Jun 19th 2019 at 2:32:45 PM

Random facts on Trivia pages are okay, but that one really needs to go. Surely the game won't be that bad, even if it has some flaws.

Edited by Lymantria on Jun 19th 2019 at 5:33:09 AM

Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
GastonRabbit "Air quotes" from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
"Air quotes"
Jun 26th 2019 at 7:15:23 PM

Since I've seen Internet Backdraft show up in this thread several times, I thought I'd mention that its TRS thread voted to make it Flame Bait, so examples should be removed completely instead of being brought here.

(It hasn't yet been tagged as Flame Bait while I'm posting this, but I posted a request in the Locked Pages thread, so that should change soon.) Never mind this, it's Flame Bait now.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 26th 2019 at 11:31:51 AM

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Pichu-kun ...
...
Jun 28th 2019 at 2:16:25 PM

From Fanfic.Last Call:

  • Adaptational Heroism: Jasper is a lot more heroic here. In canon, Jasper was an overzealous soldier that goaded Lapis into fusing with her so they could take revenge on the Crystal Gems, only to be Hoist by Their Own Petard once Lapis turned the tables and took her frustration out on Jasper, Jasper trying to get Lapis to take her back after they unfused due to desiring the rush from fusing, but still remaining unchanged otherwise. Here, she's the victim to Lapis's emotional abuse, and while she does manage to eventually escape the relationship, she offers to help Lapis when she drunkenly calls her, whereas canon Jasper would more likely deck Lapis in the face.

Jasper is a controversial Steven Universe character full of Alternative Character Interpretation, so she invokes a lot of strong reactions. I'm not sure if this example is too negative (or too wordy) or not.

Crossover-Enthusiast Plotting something from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Plotting something
Jun 28th 2019 at 2:20:30 PM

That last bit should be chopped off.

"How can I ruin these wonderful people's lives today?"
Jun 30th 2019 at 7:56:53 PM

This was just added to Creator's Apathy

  • In recent years Pokémon has been accused of this. Under normal circumstances these accusations could be chalked up to fans just being fans, but in several interviews series director Junichi Masuda has stated that they intentionally reduced the difficulty and available content while ignoring feedback from fans because he believes that people nowadays are too busy to devote their attention to a single game for them to put any real effort in, even flat-out saying that players should lower their expectations. This attitude led to them reducing the amount of Pokémon programmed into Pokémon Sword and Shield (despite already having models and animations for all the previous ones), in addition to lackluster graphics, resulting in massive backlash.
    • In contrast, we have Shigeki Morimoto who directed HeartGold & SoulSilver, which were beloved by the community for the extensive amount of content it provided. Morimoto said in an interview that his colleagues questioned the amount of effort he was putting in, telling him that he shouldn’t bother to go this far with a remake.

I feel that this is an attempt to sneak in a complaint following the recent controversy surrounding Pokémon Sword and Shield, especially since we locked the YMMV page since it attracted complaining. Lowering the difficulty (I find this part questionable because Pokemon games were always pretty easy) and not having as many features doesn't mean the creators no longer put any care into developing the games. The other citations that have been used for Creator's Apathy have been sources of people who worked on the works flat out admitting to not caring, which none of the sources used in this example indicate.

Update: I went ahead and deleted it due to it being a blatant attempt to sneak in a complaint, and the sources don't indicate the developers completely stopped caring about developing Pokemon. You can argue Game Freak has skewed priorities, but they aren't lazy or apathetic.

Edited by ADrago on Jun 30th 2019 at 2:37:48 PM

ShinyCottonCandy Actually sour cream from The Galar Region Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Actually sour cream
Jun 30th 2019 at 8:01:20 PM

[up]Creator's Apathy requires Word of God anyway, so cut with extreme prejudice.

I need to think of a better signature.
Jun 30th 2019 at 9:11:22 PM

ComicBook.The Night Gwen Stacy Died and its subpages are full of Gwen-bashing, story-bashing, The Amazing Spider-Man-bashing, and even creator-bashing. Marvel has also said that what killed Gwen was the whiplash effect, but there's a lot of 'that wasn't what really killed her' entries too, and to my knowledge Gwen was seen as a base-breaking character in those days, with many people enjoying her and seeing her as Peter's one true love as much as others hating her.

    From the Awesome page 
On a meta level, the fact that the writers managed to permanently kill a major character convincingly. Though as pointed out by Gerry Conway, the decision to kill Gwen was not especially controversial by the editorial staff.

Mary Jane's Character Development shows brilliantly when Peter, in his despair, lashes out at her and tells her to leave him alone. She refuses. MJ was already more popular than Gwen with the readers (that's the main reason Gwen was killed off, after all) but this was the pivotal moment that convinced Spider-Fans that she was Peter Parker's One True Love.

    From the main page 
" Author Avatar: Gerry Conway puts his own real-life opinions about Gwen (namely that she was a bland character who was more interesting dead than alive) right into the Goblin's mouth, when he calls her a "paltry useless female who never did anything more than occupy space", as a way to trigger Spider-Man (as the Audience Surrogate) to vent his guilt at the author stand-in and allow catharsis."

Daylight Horror: Green Goblin kills Gwen on a bright blue morning with clear skies and in public view. This effect is ruined in The Amazing Spider-Man Series where Emma Stone's Gwen is killed at night in a dank clock tower, though they were probably misled by the title.

My Greatest Failure: Some might say it is Spider-Man's second-greatest failure, after the death of Uncle Ben, but in an important way it can be seen as worse. In the words of Gerry Conway: "Uncle Ben died because Peter didn't use his power. Gwen dies as a consequence of Peter using his power."note This can be taken to refer to the theory that Peter accidentally snapped Gwen's neck in his attempt to rescue her, but also the the fact his defeats of the Green Goblin led the latter to targeting and murdering Gwen.

    From the YMMV page 
Alas, Poor Scrappy: Gwen's death invoked this reaction to the extent that people have forgotten that she was a scrappy before her death. Many fans didn't like her for hating Spider-Man, or unfairly blaming him for her father's death out of prejudice, and how that bizarre situation made Peter feel guilty. For reference, check out the letter by a female fan in Amazing Spider-Man #125 who commends the writers for whacking a very annoying character. But even then the shock of her death and the cold and almost perfunctory manner in which it happened as well as Peter's horror and grief at his loss and failure quickly enlarged and exponentially increased Gwen's fanbase overnight.

" Fan-Disliked Explanation: The idea that Peter caused Gwen's death by himself which was floated by later editors and columns, and which outright contradicts the dialogue (Norman saying that the fall killed her from that height) and is liked by some fans for its daring Reality Ensues is not one popular among others. They point out that this effectively makes Gwen's death not as a result of actual tragic decisions and circumstances (Goblin knowing Spider-Man's identity, Peter sparing him and giving him a second chance, Gwen not knowing about the double life and the danger she was in) that led up to it, but an accident of incompetence on Peter's part. It outright contradicts a number of moments in earlier comics where superhero physics were played straight, and it also means that the righteous fury and anger Peter falls into in Issue 122 is not merited."

" Hype Backlash: On account of its status as "the best Spider-Man" story and so on. By the 2010s, Spidey fans began seeing it less as a daring Reality Ensues moment, and more as the first of Marvel's Writer on Board attempts to keep Peter from maturing and growing up; not to mention a classic example of the Stuffed into the Fridge trope. Between the popularity of Spider-Gwen and Emma Stone's performance in The Amazing Spider-Man Series, some have called for the mainline universe Gwen Stacy to be resurrected for good.

It Was His Sled: Gwen Stacy's death, though it was not as well-known by general audiences as other parts of the Spider-Man mythos until The Amazing Spider-Man films. This isn't helped by the spoiler being the title itself. While the title isn't shown until the end of the issue in which she dies, any trade paperback collection that includes the plotline will definitely have it listed as such."

" Protagonist Title Fallacy: Gwen Stacy is not the protagonist of the story of her death. She's not even the most significant female character (Mary Jane is)."

    From the Quotes page 

"Since they couldn’t marry Peter and Gwen, they say it was ‘inescapable’ — Gwen had to die. Not only is this a glaring and desperate attempt to absolve themselves of creative responsibility in the eyes of fans, it brings up an even more disturbing question: Was the writing staff so unable to think of any other potential avenues for the character’s fate? Couldn’t Gwen simply have left town, met someone else, gotten a job? Since when is a brutal demise the only alternative for a female character besides marriage? The misogynistic implications of this thinking are staggering." — Arnold T. Blumberg "Comic Book Market Place", one year after the story's publication, anticipating the common criticism about Women in Refrigerators in recent years.

"By the mid-1970s Spider-Man’s great plot-lines – The Death of Gwen Stacy, Peter Parker’s ethereal blonde girlfriend, who would haunt him as Kim Novak haunts James Stewart in Vertigo...were well behind him. And Peter Parker had settled for what seemed to us a second-best girlfriend, the dark-haired ‘girl next door’, Mary Jane Watson...In fact, I’d sentimentally rewritten my personal history, according to the dicta of the Bullpen Bulletin, so that until my research into the movie disproved it, I could claim (in Bookforum, two years ago) that "the first romantic loss for a lot of guys my age was Gwen Stacy’s death." This was a retrospective fiction, I now see. Gwen Stacy was dead before I met her...the halcyon past is not always what it is cracked up to be. My researches unearthed this horrible fact –- the Marvel scripters who followed Stan Lee on the job killed off Gwen Stacy because they found her unworkably dull, a cold fish. Red-haired Mary Jane was more approachable, sexier, all along. If I’d known sooner I might have been spared some pining." — Jonathan Lethem, "The Amazing..." review of Spider-Man published in the London Review of Books, "Vol. 24 No. 11 · 6 June 2002"

"Now, when it comes to the Gerry Conway scripted "The Night Gwen Stacy Died/The Green Goblin's Last Stand", most fans are bound to talk about the impact the deaths of Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn had on superhero comic books in general. Unsurprisingly so, as it is indeed, a tale ballsy for its time. It was unheard of to kill off the titular superhero's love interest and the arch-nemesis in a single story. I would, however, like to talk about a less discussed aspect of the tale which appeals to me the most. Which is saying a lot as the entire story is well crafted and perfectly executed. I am talking about the "Epilogue" scene between Peter and Mary Jane in ASM #122. It is but one page but oh, what a page it is. The range of emotion captured through the artwork of Gil Kane and strong inking of John Romita Sr. is moving, to say the least. But what touches me the most is how the moment between MJ and Peter plays the element of much needed hope in an otherwise downer of a story. The inclusion of this one page really subverts the entire tone of the arc, which could otherwise be viewed as rather sexist...I sincerely feel "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" is not any run-of-the-mill "Women in Refrigerators" tale...One of the reasons I find this story superior to even the finest of Wi R stories like Alan Moore's The Killing Joke is because it actively sets out to serve as a tool for the development of a male and female character's emotional arc. Here, Gwen's tragedy serves to strengthen Peter and Mary Jane's relationship, as opposed to Barbara Gordon's tragedy used as an exploitative tool to explore the Batman and Joker's relationship...Not only does Gwen's death force Peter and Mary Jane to grow up and prime them for a mature relationship, but it also expands the significance of not one, but two female characters. Let's face it, Gwen Stacy was a pretty irrelevant character when it came to the bigger comic landscape. Her shocking death however, changed all of that! Suddenly, she became iconic...It was a great loss which gave birth to the career of my favorite webslinging superhero, and it was a great loss which gave birth to my favorite love story in not only comics, but also in all of fiction. The wonderful and hope filled love story of Peter and MJ, borne out of the fateful night Gwen Stacy died." — Reader "Eve K.", recorded by Brian Cronin in the commentary for the entry of The Night Gwen Stacy Died in CBR's 50 Greatest Spider-Man Stories, where it is second to Kraven's Last Hunt.

I never imagined you could actually kill Gwen. You have more intelligence then I gave you credit for. I fervently hope Gwen doesn't make a miraculous recovery in #122 (or in any subsequent issues). I also hope Peter doesn't mourn her too long...how long can he grieve over a person whose brain was constructed entirely out of old Pepsi bottles and whose personality had the exact color, consistency, and flavor of a loaf of Wonder Bread? — Jane C. Hollingsworth, Letter to the Editor, "The Spider's Web" Column, published in Amazing Spider-Man, #125, a more or less accurate summation of Gwen's reputation before her death, among general readers, and female readers in particular.

Gwen's Stacy death made her the holy version...this ideal woman for Peter...People who say that weren't around for the whole run. They've forgotten how nasty she was. She wasn't the most stable. She'd be all lovey-dovey one moment, and then hands-off the next. She was very strange. Just prior to her death, there was a long period when they were on the outs. — Roger Stern Spider-Man Crawlspace Episode 37: Roger Stern Interview Pt. 2', Timestamp: 52:00 — 55:00

Edited by lalalei2001 on Jun 30th 2019 at 9:20:57 AM

Pichu-kun ...
...
Jul 13th 2019 at 7:42:45 AM

From AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Sonic The Hedgehog:

  • A kind of meta-example, from the fandom: "Amy is Sonic Team's way of vilifying western culture's take on feminism. Don't believe me? Amy is a very "western" girl: extremely outspoken, very assertive, very confident, and very goal-oriented. And yet, Sonic doesn't trust her worth a damn. He trusts Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow without uttering a word; they're men, after all, and only men are allowed to be outspoken. Sonic also trusts Cream, who knows when to shut up, and Elise, a girl who makes Cinderella seem downright heroic. But Amy? No way. Amy ANNOYS Sonic. Because Sonic Team is so set in their own culture; that women should not be so outspoken."

This seems too bashy towards Sonic Team.

Jul 13th 2019 at 7:45:06 AM

[up]Yeah, too bashy.

Gacha Is A Lie.
rjd1922 Spooky DJ from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Spooky DJ
Jul 13th 2019 at 7:55:59 AM

[up][up]It's also poorly written, using First-Person. Cut it.

really not feelin up to it right now. sorry.
Jul 17th 2019 at 5:45:08 PM

I found this example in A To G:

  • Despite popular claims, in English the word "America" refers to a country, not a continent. Misuse of this one (e.g. claims that America is a continent, not a country) has been increasingly common among Spanish and Portuguese-speaking Latin Americans who are also fluent in English (and anyone who likes bullying Americans). See, in the Anglosphere (as well as most of Asia and Western Europe), there is no one single continent called America. These regions of the world use a seven-continent geographic model, which includes two continents named North America and South America. Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries use a different geographical model in which these two continents are considered one single continent called "America," but in English, the correct term for grouping North and South America together is the Americas.note 
    • Also, for Argentinians fluent in English, take special note—North America in English refers to the continent of North America, not the United States. (In Argentinean Spanish, Norteamericano is a gentilic for the United States.)
    • Also, for everyone: Mexico is part of North America, not Central or South America. "North American" and "Anglophone" are not interchangeable, and that's true even without Canadian bilingualism getting involved.

Regardless of your opinion on the matter, it seems like it was written to bash all "those Iberophones that are wrong". That there is a very long note explaining why their explanation is the right one, and two bullet points to correct two other mistakes doesn't help.

Edited by ElBuenCuate on Jul 17th 2019 at 12:27:01 PM

Sorry to barge in.
GastonRabbit "Air quotes" from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
"Air quotes"
Jul 18th 2019 at 11:20:50 PM

[up]TRS decided two years ago to turn You Keep Using That Word into a trope for in-universe word confusion, instead of continuing to use it for the out-of-universe nitpicking it was being used for. It should be cut regardless of the complaining.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 19th 2019 at 9:29:35 AM

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Jul 19th 2019 at 5:57:47 PM

[up] I wasn't aware of that ruling, thanks a lot.

But now that brings the question if the whole page is in compliance.

Sorry to barge in.
Crossover-Enthusiast Plotting something from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Plotting something
Jul 19th 2019 at 6:46:44 PM

I'm not sure if we have a specific cleanup thread for this, but I don't know where else to put it so...

YMMV.Steven Universe:

  • They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
    • There is no clear Evil Counterpart to the Crystal Gems. The closest thing the show ever had something like this was the appearance of Lapis, Peridot and Jasper in "The Return". Back then, this "Terrible Trio" was universally called "The Homeworld Gems" in the fandom, with many fans predicting they would stay a team after the events of Season 1. Problem is, they were never a team in the first place, with Peridot and Lapis abandoning Jasper and befriending Steven. It's really a shame, since people would've loved to see fusions between Homeworld characters, not just between Anti-Villains, actually evil fusions who prove more of a challenge.
    • Speaking of Homeworld Gem fusions, Malachite is probably one of the most dull and uninteresting fusions in the series, despite being the only fusion who actually counts as an antagonist note . Instead of actually giving her a unique personality and voice, she's literally just Lapis and Jasper Sharing a Body, with the implication of Lapis losing her identity to Malachite in "Chille Tid" never amounting to anything. Looking back, Malachite was little more than just an enlarged Jasper with a centauric build and water powers.

The edit reason suggests that this opinion is their own and they didn't check if anyone else had it.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Jul 19th 2019 at 12:01:00 PM

"How can I ruin these wonderful people's lives today?"
Jul 19th 2019 at 8:01:05 PM

[up]Cut those entries for complaining.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jul 19th 2019 at 8:01:45 AM

Jul 19th 2019 at 8:53:23 PM

From The Simpsons

Fanon Discontinuity:Some fans treat the episode as this, not for being bad (it's considered genuinely funny), but that they feel this episode started Lisa's eventual Flanderization into a Soapbox Sadie (which it was, due to Paul Mc Cartney only agreeing to do the episode if Lisa stayed vegetarian for the rest of the show's run. The fans saw it as a sign that the Simpsons' writers were kissing the asses of the guest stars they let on the show, disliking Paul more than his wife Linda because of that).

I believe the bolded can be erased since it does complain.

Edited by WhirlRX on Jul 19th 2019 at 11:53:56 AM

Gacha Is A Lie.
Jul 19th 2019 at 8:59:07 PM

[up] The wording "some fans" is always a red flag.

And I find it weird that fans would both find an episode funny, and pretend it doesn't exist. In my opinion is not an example at all, but seems more like Franchise Original Sin.

Sorry to barge in.
Jul 19th 2019 at 9:06:33 PM

[up]the Episode recap YMMV page does have Franchise Original Sin.

Im guessing the mindset is that its a funny episode, but we would rather forget about Lisa turing into a vegetarian. I guess it can be reworded?

Gacha Is A Lie.

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