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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, YKTTW or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

Edited by Berrenta on Dec 19th 2018 at 6:31:01 AM

Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety human from A nova - it doesn't go Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety human
Mar 7th 2019 at 11:23:08 AM

I'd say work laconics are still useful, just to get a quick sense of what the work's about.

Everything's worse with failing research forever.
Mar 7th 2019 at 12:57:51 PM

Many entries on Indecisive Deconstruction have a lot of bashing and natter, including a completely incomprehensible Final Fantasy VII entry. I think people are confusing it for Decon-Recon Switch.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Mar 7th 2019 at 12:58:08 PM

Mar 8th 2019 at 4:45:18 PM

This is under YMMV.Captain Marvel 2019

  • Vanilla Protagonist: One criticism leveled towards the film is that the titular Captain Marvel comes across as very plain and boring compared to many of the other protagonists in their origin movie. She isn't terrible mind you, but to some she feels very plain and less compelling.

Vanilla Protagonist is when their blandness makes other characters stand out more so I believe complaining about their blandness is misuse. I'll cut unless anyone objects.

Eight Deadly Words was cut from it citing "Not a trope that's supposed to be used." ATT on the matter here. My impression was that it was that the restrictions only applied to the Eight Deadly Words page itself, but I want to ask before doing anything.

UPDATE: someone removed Vanilla Protagonist for unrelated reasons. I'd still like to know if using it for a complaint is misuse.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Mar 8th 2019 at 6:03:14 AM

Mar 8th 2019 at 7:27:33 PM

[up] I'd tend to agree with your reasoning. Vanilla Protagonist is supposed to be a protag who is vanilla so that the supporting cast can shine, not a protag that is vanilla compared to the protags of other films in the same franchise.

Metaverse i hope u roll scheherazade Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
i hope u roll scheherazade
Mar 9th 2019 at 10:58:52 AM

Some recently added this to the YMMV page for Persona 5.

  • Undermined by Reality: Director Katsura Hashino took a significant hit to his reputation in early 2019 when his next game after P5, an Updated Re-release of his standalone title Catherine, was discovered to include a new Golden Ending in which the title character uses time travel to grant the entire cast's deepest wishes... which includes the transgender character Erica Anderson seemingly deciding to stay as her former male self, Eric. As other entries on this page may indicate, Hashino's portrayal of LGBT characters has never been entirely spotless, but this detail has caused fans to see prior portrayals in his games in a significantly more unnerving light, and has caused them to question just how sincere Persona 5's progressive messages (and those in any other Hashino game) really are.

Not only is this example not about Persona 5 at all, it's mostly about the Catherine controversy with Persona 5 shoehorned in (which later turned out to be the result of misinterpreting one of the new endings), but it feels like Creator Bashing.

Edited by Metaverse on Mar 9th 2019 at 11:02:42 AM

I'm illiterate. Superman 64 has a better story than Persona 5
HamburgerTime All things pure and good. from Garamsythe Sewer Relationship Status: I know
All things pure and good.
Mar 9th 2019 at 11:04:09 AM

Ah, that was me. Wasn't trying to creator-bash, merely reporting that I've seen a lot more criticism of Hashino's games since the Catherine thing dropped, and P5 most of all due to the fact that it's supposed to be progressive.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Mar 9th 2019 at 1:05:44 PM

There's nothing that needs mending/Just follow my words, they will lead you to the ending.
Metaverse i hope u roll scheherazade Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
i hope u roll scheherazade
Mar 9th 2019 at 11:23:25 AM

[up]Fair enough. I reread what I posted and I might have jumped the gun in interpreting it as bashing, I'm really tired right now.

P5's progressive message has always been an issue of contention from what I've known, but the example would probably be better suited to Catherine's YMMV, since it mostly relates to Catherine, and the entire controversy over the Golden Ending has definetely added more fuel to the "Is Hashino honest about being progressive?" fire.

I'm illiterate. Superman 64 has a better story than Persona 5
nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Mar 9th 2019 at 12:47:08 PM

If Hashino has a Creator page (and we still allow YMMV pages for creators), I think it would appropriate to include that entry there, but an entirely different work seems like a bridge too far, IMO.

Edited by nrjxll on Mar 9th 2019 at 2:47:42 PM

HamburgerTime All things pure and good. from Garamsythe Sewer Relationship Status: I know
All things pure and good.
Mar 9th 2019 at 12:59:39 PM

Like I said, I was trying to put down as objective an account as I could of a real trend I've been seeing in the fandoms for Hashino's games. I put it on P5's page because that game in particular is getting a LOT of scrutiny now. Any and all bias was unintentional.

There's nothing that needs mending/Just follow my words, they will lead you to the ending.
Mar 16th 2019 at 12:20:30 AM

I've seen Show, Don't Tell used as a trope complaint about failures of Show Don't Tell. Is it only to be used for successful examples?

And since Internet Backdraft is about abrupt inflammatory backdraft, is something that causes backdraft whenever brought up long after the incident misuse (it's the kind of complaints that led us to clean-up Fandom Berserk Button)?

Spider-Guinevere The very model of a modern major general from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
The very model of a modern major general
Mar 21st 2019 at 4:35:29 AM

Subcultures and the various pages related to it have a quite a bit of complaining from people belonging to the mentioned subcultures about how other people's views on them.

Edited by Spider-Guinevere on Mar 21st 2019 at 11:39:59 AM

I wanna dance with somebody
Spider-Guinevere The very model of a modern major general from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
The very model of a modern major general
Mar 22nd 2019 at 4:54:14 AM

Misaimed Marketing is package deal- buy some complaining now and get a free dose of ignorance!

I wanna dance with somebody
Mar 27th 2019 at 1:02:05 AM

UngratefulBastard.Western Animation

  • In "No Second Prances", Starlight Glimmer gets upset with how Twilight Sparkle is treating her and even calls her out for not wholly trusting her. Apparently letting all the genuinely villainous stuff she did slide without consequence, holding absolutely no grudges whatsoever, personally mentoring her, giving her a home and a group of friends, and continuing to Easily Forgive her when she lapses into her old bad behavior isn't good enough and Twilight deserves a scolding.

I intend to cut since 1. she not portrayed as ungrateful in-work, 2. "continuing to Easily Forgive her when she lapses into her old bad behavior" didn't happen until after this one so is unrelated. Objections?

Mar 31st 2019 at 4:43:47 PM

The main page for Son of the Mask needs a thorough cleansing. I don't even know where to start. Same goes for the main and YMMV pages for One More Day. They're both full of complaining and repeating Caustic Critic opinions.

Apr 3rd 2019 at 1:15:36 PM

So I noticed that there was a discussion a few pages back (namely here) about misuse of Critical Research Failure and Dan Browned, in particular with regards of DanBrowned.Honest Trailers and DanBrowned.Game Theory, and it was decided that cut both pages as there was no oversight to ensure that the examples in them fit. Well, now I see that the examples in the Honest Trailers page were put back in YMMV.Honest Trailers under Critical Research Failure. I don't know if there was oversight in there too to ensure that the examples restored fit, and I'm concerned that there will be people that will keep adding anything that they consider CRF to the point of bloating the page.

Apr 3rd 2019 at 1:21:24 PM

[up]In the case of Honest Trailers, the examples were originally on the YMMV page but were moved to the subpage, that was later cut, due to length, so adding them back to YMMV brings back the same problem of being too long to the page.

Edited by costanton11 on Apr 3rd 2019 at 3:21:55 AM

Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety human from A nova - it doesn't go Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety human
Apr 3rd 2019 at 2:21:47 PM

Claiming those are CRF is Fan Myopia. Nuke them.

Edited by Brainulator9 on Apr 3rd 2019 at 5:23:27 AM

Everything's worse with failing research forever.
Apr 4th 2019 at 7:29:26 AM

Some of the Game Theory examples from the cut page were moved back to Critical Research Failure. Should they be removed?

Apr 4th 2019 at 12:25:51 PM

This entry under Hype Backlash for Batman: Arkham City like a pretty typical "Well I didn't think it was perfect" nitpicky misuse. Thoughts?

Hype Backlash: While it's a fine game, and among the best superhero games, going into the game after hearing "It's the best game ever made", can seriously damage its possible impact. At times, the story can feel like the developers took a bunch of characters and tried to shove them into the story, resulting in Two-Face's very minor role, Solomon Grundy's sudden appearance and Vicki Vale's rescue mission. Most bosses follow the same tactic of "Evade and spam gadget X", some go down with a single button press, and the acclaimed Mr. Freeze fight requires both characters to suddenly go Jerkass towards each other for it to happen. On the other hand, the game does manage to excellently foreshadow the Clayface twist.

HeatEdgeSword A berry a day doesn't keeps Scizor from Malaysia
A berry a day doesn't keeps Scizor
Apr 4th 2019 at 5:35:46 PM

This example from Creator's Pest certainly feels like complaining.

  • Controversially, former Arrow showrunner Marc Guggenheim is blatant for his apathy to Katie Cassidy and her characters on the aforementioned show, to the point that he had Cassidy's original character Out of Focus for most of the episodes and eventually killed-off. Problem is, Cassidy's characters are the second most important in the source material, and his treatment of her is seen as the epitome of Canon Defilement. Notably, even with the possibility of resurrection within the Shared Universe Arrow is part of, resurrecting Cassidy's original character is treated as a "mortal sin". And then when Cassidy debuted her second character, who is an Evil Doppelgänger of the original, Guggenheim immediately puts the character in a prolonged Redemption Quest, while the murderer of her original character is given one in the sister show. He also introduced a similar character, both in name and powers, to be the official successor to Cassidy's original character instead (this character is received just as you would expect). Evidently, Cassidy's second character is finally allowed to shine when the bastard Guggenheim is finally relieved as showrunner.

Apr 4th 2019 at 5:52:10 PM

Found this on Feminist Fantasy:

  • Ghostbusters (2016) is a Reboot of the franchise, starring a Gender Flipped cast. The team consists of a group of female scientists (and an amateur historian) who wear practical uniforms and kick plenty of ass while fighting to get the respect they've earned. After the trailer received plenty of Internet Backdraft over having a female cast, reshoots were done to poke fun at misogynistic comments on the internet. Unfortunately for them, it did nothing to stop said comments (in fact, it only intensified them), and the movie itself ultimately turned out to be rather average compared to the love of the original.
    • The decided mediocrity of the movie (and poor box office showings) are more likely due to its overuse of gross-out humor, constant discussion of private body functions (as if the mere mention of the word "poop" is mystically supposed to be funny), and the inability of the director to reign in what is otherwise a fairly talented cast or provide any kind of direction or flow for the movie. For example, just compare the graphic, unfunny discussions of farts, poop, queefs, and other private body functions to the highbrow, sarcastic, and witty banter between Bill Murray, Dan Akryod, and Harold Ramis in the first (no bodily waste functions or fart jokes are present; the only body-function reference is Venkman's wry "someone blows their nose and you want to keep it" reference to the ectoplasm in the library). The over-use of disgusting body humor and goofball, lowbrow slapstick is a trend Hollywood in general has been descending for the last 20 years in ALL genres, making this film's true tragedy not at all due to the female cast, but rather the trajectory of mediocrity Hollywood humor has been following in general. The woman-cast could easily have provided similar sharp, sarcastic, highbrow comedy, if they had a better screenplay and good direction.

Everything after the second sentence seems to be natter for the sake of bashing the movie.

Albert3105 Magikarp deterrence
Magikarp deterrence
Apr 4th 2019 at 7:20:50 PM

[up] Strip everything after the second sentence as off-topic, at the very least.

Edited by Albert3105 on Apr 4th 2019 at 7:21:05 AM

nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Apr 4th 2019 at 7:42:02 PM

Evidently, Cassidy's second character is finally allowed to shine when the bastard Guggenheim is finally relieved as showrunner.

I love how this entry pretended to take a faux-objective tone for the majority only to completely drop it at the very end. Yeah, that's cutworthy. Even without the negativity there's nothing in there that actually refers to an admitted dislike on the creator's part, as opposed to audiences disliking the results. Heck, the most it even accuses is "apathy".

Edited by nrjxll on Apr 4th 2019 at 9:42:40 AM

Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety human from A nova - it doesn't go Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety human
Apr 6th 2019 at 12:11:46 PM

This ATT thread asks about the Sailor Moon section of UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.Anime And Manga, which reads likw nothing complaining, but the thread's OP is unsure about removing valid examples.

I say chainsaw it, but what about you all?

Everything's worse with failing research forever.

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