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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, YKTTW or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

Edited by Berrenta on Dec 19th 2018 at 6:31:01 AM

Oct 13th 2018 at 10:08:12 PM

[up][up][up]What is written about Timber basically is Ron the Death Eater type information.

it does not look valid.

Oct 20th 2018 at 9:38:36 PM

I couldn't find a Hype Backlash cleanup thread even though I thought there was one, so dropping this Final Fantasy VI example here and asking if it fits.

  • Hype Backlash: Because fans of this game are really fans of this game and tend to lavish it with praise. It's often called the very best of the series (and occasionally garnished with a big dollop of Fandom Rivalry towards anything that came after it). As a result, newcomers can wind up feeling underwhelmed either by the "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny effect, the realization that gameplay is generally left out of the praise, or the plain fact that while it is a solid game, it still has the same storytelling faults that you generally find in the rest of the series.

chasemaddigan This is Unicorn!
This is Unicorn!
Oct 20th 2018 at 11:06:25 PM

[up] Looking it over, it does use Hype Backlash correctly. It's only the last bit that edges it towards complainy territory. Maybe rephrase it along the lines of "As a result, newcomers can wind up feeling underwhelmed by the once innovative gameplay or story."

For the record, I have no experience with Final Fantasy. So, this rewrite is working solely off the example and may not reflect the thoughts of the fandom. You can take it for what it's worth.

Primis from Nsburg
Oct 20th 2018 at 11:13:15 PM

[up][up] I've yet to play FFVI, but this entry seems fine to me. It doesn't really sound complainy at all.

Night Vision Image Quality Cleanup Thread
Crossover-Enthusiast The Absolute Mad Lads from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Absolute Mad Lads
Oct 21st 2018 at 12:04:54 AM

[up][up][up] I'd remove "Because fans of this game are really fans of this game and tend to lavish it with praise.". Otherwise, it's fine.

Oct 23rd 2018 at 2:03:49 AM

Does this bit that was added to the work page description of Affirmative Action Legacy look valid?:

This has resulted in this trope often overlapping with Critical Dissonance; particularly since the 2010s, many characters who fall under this trope have been loved by professional critics and writers, but often panned by actual readers and fandom-based critics. A particularly common complaint, of the 2010s wave in particular, is that the characters are actually often legitimately badly written, but are still shilled and hyped up by critics & writers as if "representation" somehow supersedes quality. Another common complaint is that some of these characters were written in from left field even though there might be characters already in the comic that could have filled the Affirmative Action Legacy slot just as well.

Especially as the troper who added the first two sentences also added this to the Miles Morales example on the page:

** That said, Miles is not entirely free of the stigma associated with this trope; whilst very few readers consider him a bad character, many feel he is a bland character, falling into the common trap of an AAL character becoming "X, But Y". Unlike some other AAL versions of Spider-Man, such as the female Spider-Girl and Spider-Gwen or the Hispanic Spider-Man 2099, Miles' stories often feel too much like retreads of Peter Parker's own teenage years.

Oct 23rd 2018 at 3:24:46 AM

Horrible.Fan Film seems to have many of the pitfalls Horrible.Fan Fiction ran into before it was cut, including creator-bashing ("He's not even singing, he's just talking. In some parts, he's not even going to the beat either. He also sounds like he's crying, and like he's just making up all the lyrics as the music goes, instead of writing or rehearsing it beforehand."), complaints being rather petty or without valid reasons ("The narration is very loud, oxnoxious and most of it is just Narrating the Obvious," "The song has nothing to do with Hanukkah, the lyrics to the song don't make sense, and Charlie Brown does nothing but bounce around Christmas decorations."), and a lack of quality control in general.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:26:08 AM

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Oct 23rd 2018 at 4:15:46 AM

[up][up] Very suspicious indeed. I'd cut all of that and warn the troper not to ride their personal hobby horse.

[up] Seems like a blatant attempt to end-run the lock on Horrible.Fan Fiction. Murder it and bury it in an unmarked grave.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 23rd 2018 at 7:16:11 AM

TV Tropes Changelog -- keep track of updates to the site!
Oct 23rd 2018 at 8:19:54 AM

[up] I would've have preferred a clean-up, but I can see why it's getting cut. I'll still miss it, though.

Oct 23rd 2018 at 3:02:09 PM

[up][up][up] Maybe some of the examples on Horrible.Fan Film can be moved to So Bad, It's Good under the Web Original folder.

Crossover-Enthusiast The Absolute Mad Lads from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Absolute Mad Lads
Oct 26th 2018 at 10:19:17 AM

I'm not sure where these should go so I'll just put them here. From YMMV.Steven Universe.

  • Ron the Death Eater:
    • Pearl has gotten many fans theorizing that she secretly hates Steven, or only likes him because he reminds her of Rose, despite the fact that besides her actions in "Rose's Scabbard", where she was caught up in her own grief, she's been nothing but motherly to him for the whole series. Even the writers have said that if you hate Pearl, you've missed the point. Her actions in "Cry for Help" definitely haven't helped. This has further grown upon "Three Gems And A Baby", with people claiming that Pearl tried to kill baby Steven, despite it being obvious that Pearl merely thought Rose was trapped inside Steven's gem, before she stopped and told herself it's what Rose wanted. She didn't even hurt him; she just grabbed his gem.
    • Lars is a Jerkass, most definitely, but much of the fandom makes him out to be a malicious, abusive monster, as opposed to being a lonely kid with a mean streak.
    • Ronaldo on the other end of the Broken Base. While he is definitely far from a saint, most of his more malicious acts can be blamed on stupidity and cluelessness rather than straight up villainy.
    • Just as there are those that defend Pink/Rose, there are those that demonize her. Some write her off as extremely self-centered and callous, effectively escalating a war and destroying countless gemsnote  out of a selfish desire, in addition to putting a Geas on Pearl that made things harder for the Crystal Gems years later. However, Pink/Rose did not desire to see any Gems shattered note  and only made the decision after fellow Diamonds refused to listen to her and ultimately really did want to save Earth and give it to the Crystal Gems and humanity rather than rule it herself. She is still shown to regret her actions millenia later when first meeting Greg, and treated Pearl as a confident rather than a slave, and her actions are more a result of short sightedness rather than any malice.
    • Lapis has gotten this treatment recently for her actions in "Alone at Sea", portraying her as the abuser in the abusive relationship with Jasper. These people usually claim that Lapis enjoyed taking her anger out on Jasper, but they ignore that Lapis realized that it was wrong and regretting ever being fused to Jasper. Then Lapis got called out for suckerpunching Jasper into the air, taking the actual situation out of context. Lapis was only hurting Jasper to protect Steven, that was her entire motivation. According to some fans, Lapis was simply attacking and abusing Jasper because she wanted to.

Karxrida Art by @Rubi_arts from Darkness within Darkness Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
Art by @Rubi_arts
Oct 26th 2018 at 11:02:23 AM

Pretty sure Ron the Death Eater can only be listed on fanworks.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Primis from Nsburg
Oct 28th 2018 at 2:00:25 PM

Found this example on The Chris Carter Effect, about BIONICLE:

Greg Farshtey, the writer for BIONICLE, refers to this as the "Sizzle and Steak" effect — the sizzle is what lures people in, but sooner or later you have to produce the steak. Many Bionicle fans were unhappy with the series phasing out the fantasy elements and replacing them with very soft science fiction, especially the revelation that the Matoran universe was inside a Humongous Mecha, but as Greg pointed out, a major theme in Bionicle is people being wrong, and the truth will have to come out sooner or later or the audience will get frustrated.
  • Sadly, an enormous Schedule Slip, as well as the fact that LEGO considers Bionicle to be dead means that the steak will be shriveled up and indigestible, for the sizzle's taking too long and there's no plot resolutions in sight.note 

1. It is true that some people didn't like BIONICLE's Genre Shift, myself among them at first, but it was a Vocal Minority, as most people consider this the moment the franchise began Growing the Beard.

2. I don't recall much, if any, backlash against The Reveal of the Humongous Mecha, definitely less than the Genre Shift above. The general reaction ranged from calling it a Moment of Awesome to more attentive fans saying I Knew It! The worst thing I've seen anyone say about it is about its height.

3. Saying that there was "enormous" Schedule Slip is straight-up lying. There was some Schedule Slip, but it was all in supplemental side-stories that did not affect the main plot at all, and nearly all of it was for stories that were published after the conclusion of the main story, as bonus material that Farshtey was under no obligation to write at all.

4. BIONICLE had virtually no Executive Meddling that I am aware of. I don't consider the fact that line eventually ended due to stagnating sales as "meddling". The fact that it lasted as long as it did is impressive, it had a longer run than most incarnations of Transformers.

5. You can't have multiple Myth Arcs. As stated above, BIONICLE's Myth Arc did reach its conclusion, while some (like two, honestly) side-stories went unfinished. That's it.

I'm ready to wipe this entry off the wiki entirely, but I wanted some other opinions first, since I am a fan and therefore biased in favor of BIONICLE.

Edited by Primis on Oct 30th 2018 at 10:45:58 AM

Night Vision Image Quality Cleanup Thread
RAlexa21th Angel Flare, ready to go! from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Angel Flare, ready to go!
Nov 1st 2018 at 2:17:37 PM

There should be a policy of locking Smash YMMV pages right after major reveals.

Tainted by the Preview:

he November Direct disconfirmed a lot of characters, including Ensemble Darkhorses like Isaac. While some tried to warn others about the roster size after the Box Theory became known, they got drowned out once the infamous "Grinch Leak" happened and rose people's expectations.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Nov 1st 2018 at 2:25:37 AM

Nov 1st 2018 at 2:26:25 PM

Wasn't there talk about not allowing YMMV pages for unreleased works or something?

RAlexa21th Angel Flare, ready to go! from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Angel Flare, ready to go!
Nov 1st 2018 at 2:30:05 PM

I was not aware of that. Most unreleased works have YMMV and Crowning pages. The mods would need an overhaul to uphold that.

Nov 1st 2018 at 2:38:30 PM

It got brought up in Ask The Tropers before, such as this query, though I don't think it's an official thing yet.

RAlexa21th Angel Flare, ready to go! from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Angel Flare, ready to go!
Nov 1st 2018 at 2:43:54 PM

Nevertheless, I don't think I can delete that page, so I'm just asking to delete that particular entry.

There may be more entries to delete.

rjd1922 Paladin from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Nov 7th 2018 at 3:53:24 PM

White Dark Life seems to be making a lot of quality judgements.

Steel be with you.
Primis from Nsburg
Nov 7th 2018 at 7:06:39 PM

[up][up] The description could use a rewrite.

GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Nov 9th 2018 at 12:13:36 AM

The creator made the TV Tropes page and seems to have edited it frequently. I think this is covered better by Auto-Erotic Troping, particularly the part about subjective edits.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 9th 2018 at 2:34:59 PM

"I am Ferdinand von Aegir." —Ferdinand von Aegir
NervousShark 63194 from the deep sea Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Nov 9th 2018 at 2:04:58 PM

[up]They also added YMMV entries, which creators aren't allowed to do on their own works.

Wish we could turn back time to the good old days
Nov 10th 2018 at 8:11:50 PM

Recap.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 3 E 4 One Bad Apple:

  • Karma Houdini: Sure, she has a Freudian Excuse, and she makes a Heel–Face Turn, but Babs Seed still gets off without any punishment at all for all the bullying she did to the CMC (which includes destroying the float they made for the parade, kicking them out of their own clubhouse, and kicking Apple Bloom out of her own bed and forcing her to sleep on the floor).

But she did atone by standing up for them. And doesn't the narrative considering a character redeemed mean they have made up (or in the process of making up) their karma? (An execution can be made if they turn for purely selfish reasons, but that's not the case here.) The first part makes it look like it's arguing with itself.

I find that calling a redeemed character a Karma Houdini is only done as a complaint. Easily Forgiven can cover that.

Any objections to cutting this and/or making it so Karma Houdini has to remain unrepentant since guilt is treated as karma?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Nov 10th 2018 at 8:12:14 AM

Nov 10th 2018 at 9:51:30 PM

[up] That looks like misuse. Cut that example.

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