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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Jun 12th 2020 at 9:54:52 PM

Magnimik from the hills of Manchuria Relationship Status: Longing for Dulcinea
Sep 22nd 2018 at 4:15:25 AM

Analysis page for American History X seems to consist only of complaining about the ending rather than actual analysis of the film. Cut?

Berrenta A chill in the air... from Texas Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
A chill in the air...
Sep 22nd 2018 at 5:56:11 AM

Yeah, worth a cut.

Sep 22nd 2018 at 3:25:39 PM

[up][up] That page should be cut since it's just complaining rather than actual analysis.

mrbits Mochi-Doughnut-man
Mochi-Doughnut-man
Sep 23rd 2018 at 9:05:22 PM

All right, Paper Mario: Sticker Star.

Okay so, I hate this game. I think it's the worst game I've ever played, and the worst thing Nintendo has ever made, to the point where I dropped and sold it right after finishing World 1, something that I have never done with any other video game.

With that being said, the YMMV page for it is almost nothing but bashing and complaining. The game has a legitimately large amount of backlash and hatred, but the page has reached a point where I'm confident some of the tropes don't truly fit, and are just being shoehorned in. Here are a few examples:

  • 8.8: An inverted example. As the game is seen as "meh" by most critics and lambasted by the general public, IGN's score of 8.3/10 has unsurprisingly been controversial. The already insane backlash against them got even worse after Paper Jam. What score did they give it? 5.9. And then Color Splash, commonly viewed as a Surprisingly Improved Sequel, even if not by much, is awarded a 7.3/10. Ironically, the review said that it was a better game than Sticker Star, even though it gave the former a lower score than the latter.
  • Bile Fascination: Given its reputation as the weakest Paper Mario, many have played just to see if Sticker Star is really so bad or simply So Okay, It's Average.
  • Fandom Heresy: Simply mentioning the game can cause this in some circles. Also, whatever you do, don't admit that you actually like this game. Let's just say that fans will call you out on that.
  • Hype Backlash: Since the game was originally announced as a return to the original formula after Super Paper Mario, on top of the latter having one of the best stories in the entire Mario franchise, fans had very high expectations. Of course, with all the controversial changes and problems surrounding the game, it didn't stand a chance against fans' expectations. To put it mildly, saying that they were "extremely disappointed" is a massive understatement.
  • It's the Same, Now It Sucks!:
    • Pre-release, it was infamously told off as being too similar to The Thousand-Year Door by Miyamoto himself, and thus revamped with no partners, no new characters (save Kersti), and a heavily simplified battle system. The fandom instead cried They Changed It, Now It Sucks!, stating Miyamoto to be undermining the intelligence and expectations of its fanbase and being too narrow-minded to consider the Periphery Demographic, as well as stating he was disrespecting the skill of their Cult Classic printing machine, Intelligent Systems.
    • Plot-wise, it also gets this in comparison to the mainstream Mario series. While Paper Mario was well known for its previous two titles adding new storylines and having memorable characters, Sticker Star is, give or take some elements, essentially New Super Mario Bros.: The RPG. And considering how the New series already gets flack for being repetitive...
  • Lowest Common Denominator: The game attempted to appeal to longtime Paper Mario fans by bringing back the turn based battles, but also tried to attract non-fans by making Pre Existing Encounters easily skippable, significantly simplifying combat, and heavily watering down the plot. Unsurprisingly, fans were not happy about this.
  • Never Live It Down: The game has become this trope for the Paper Mario series, if not all Mario RPGs. No discussion or mention of either seems to be complete until at least one person describes this game's perceived shortcomings, even years later.
  • Tough Act to Follow: To Super Paper Mario, which funnily enough was also a Tough Act to Follow to The Thousand-Year Door, and by extension all of the previous games. In spite of the controversial gameplay, Super Paper Mario had a very complex and interesting storyline as well as multiple Ensemble Darkhorses that are widely seen as the game's main saving graces, similar to the first two games. Meanwhile, Sticker Star was initially announced as a return to the original formula, and given the previous game's excellent story, the game had very big shoes to fill. And when it was released, not only did the gameplay turn out to be completely different (and to most fans, even worse than that of Super) but the game had a very simplistic plot about Bowser kidnapping Peach, something that the first game did as well, but unlike that one it had little characterization, no real Character Development and most characters being generic male Toads, as opposed to the storytelling approach that the first three games had. Unsurprisingly, this led to a ton of backlash, and while Super Paper Mario had been Vindicated by History, Sticker Star had no such luck, which is cemented by the announcement of Color Splash being met with widespread disappointment, due to it following the same disliked formula as Sticker Star.

Edited by mrbits on Sep 23rd 2018 at 9:08:30 AM

Sep 23rd 2018 at 11:34:51 PM

[up]

  • Maybe remove 8.8, but I'm not sure if inverted examples are allowed or not.
  • Remove Hype Backlash due to misuse. Hype Backlash is for when a work receives a lot of praise, but receives backlash from a group of people who don't see what the big deal is. It's not for when an anticipated work ends up being disappointing.
  • Remove Never Live It Down due to shoehorning, since the Paper Mario series is known for a lot more than Sticker Star's shortcomings.
  • Remove the first It's the Same, So It Sucks bullet point since it's only Miyamoto who thought that way and not the fans, and it comes off as Creator Bashing.
  • Tough Act to Follow seems valid, but it could be cut down a little.

The rest of the entries seem valid.

Berrenta A chill in the air... from Texas Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
A chill in the air...
Sep 24th 2018 at 6:49:10 AM

[up] YMMV examples can't be played with, so 8.8 can go.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Sep 24th 2018 at 8:05:40 AM

That entry for 8.8 isn't even an inverted example, it's played straight. The trope page describes it as when there's fan backlash against a video game being given "an unexpected review score" by a major publication or reviewer. While it's mostly used for when a good game gets a below average score, it can also apply for when a bad game gets above average scores. There's nothing that says it has to be for the option. So it can stay in my opinion.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Sep 24th 2018 at 11:05:37 AM

miraculous "Greetings and bienvenue!" from South Africa
"Greetings and bienvenue!"
Sep 24th 2018 at 8:20:23 AM

Just remove the inverted part and the entry should be fine.

"You're fighting the sideshow and missing the circus boy. This is one insignificant battle in a global war."
Karxrida RUM Shark from The Extra Deck Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
RUM Shark
Sep 24th 2018 at 5:58:46 PM

8.8's existence never made sense to me.

Like it's just a complaint magnet that's not even directly tied to the work. Why do we have it?

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
mrbits Mochi-Doughnut-man
Mochi-Doughnut-man
Sep 24th 2018 at 7:57:33 PM

[up] Hype Backlash is even worse if you ask me. Literally every single acclaimed work is going to have people who were disappointed in it. It's People Sit on Chairs levels of meaningless.

Sep 24th 2018 at 8:27:07 PM

Per the above. I did some extensive cleanup on Hype Backlash. I wouldn't be surprised if misuse exceeded correct. This might need a more involved cleanup.

Regarding this in YMMV.Discorded Whooves:

  • Hype Backlash: At least for some people, who have heard of Discorded Whooves expect a brilliant, dark story, only to find something they don't expect. It doesn't help it's been going on and on with little to no progress. One of the many issues also forced on the tumblr is the dated aspects, such as Discord still portrayed as a villain despite being reformed in the show, Twilight being an alicorn, and a slew of other issues and of course, many people will complain over the Wangst aspects with Dissy, along with his forced relationship with Twilight.

Does it still count since, judging by it's YMMV page, complaints have overtaken fans recommending it?

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Sep 25th 2018 at 11:35:24 AM

Saw the Hype Backlash entry got removed from Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness with a link to this thread. Now, the entry we had there was kind of a mess that didnít adequately describe the trope, but DAYD is a pretty fascinating and dramatic example of the phenomenon - a legitimately major work within the Harry Potter fandom that got thousands of readers, its own small convention, and pimped entries all over the site, before its overexposure resulted in an ever-increasing number of people picking apart its writing quality, characterisation, and sinister relationship with its authorís bizarre personal history until it became another Old Shame for most of its former fans (although the murder-suicide probably didnít help on that count). Would it be OK if I write up a new entry when I have the time and opportunity?

What's precedent ever done for us?
nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Sep 25th 2018 at 4:18:52 PM

...murder-suicide??

I actually don't think that's Hype Backlash exactly, although offhand I can't say what it actually falls under. But my understanding was always that Hype Backlash involved a backlash purely because of hype, not actually engaging with an allegedly-popular work and realizing as a result of that engagement that it didn't live up to its rep.

Edited by nrjxll on Sep 25th 2018 at 6:20:06 AM

Sep 25th 2018 at 4:34:56 PM

[up][up] That sounds like Deader Than Disco, since it went from being popular to widely hated with even former fans feeling ashamed to have liked it.

HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Sep 25th 2018 at 4:38:28 PM

[up][up] The author supposedly witnessed a murder-suicide and did nothing to prevent it.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Sep 25th 2018 at 4:38:40 PM

I actually specifically remember this being removed from Deader Than Disco on the grounds that fanfiction is inherently niche.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Sep 25th 2018 at 6:03:40 PM

The murder-suicide thing was actually weirder and darker than that. The author was a pathological manipulator whoíd run a series of fanfiction cults and liked to recruit young, impressionable women as his lieutenants, cutting them off from their friends and family by getting them to recall false memories of abuse. One of the victims in the murder-suicide was a DAYD fan he was living with at the time, and the killer was her boyfriend. You can sort of fill in the blanks from there.

Way I see it, Hype Backlash on any measurable scale will always have something to do with a work being sold beyond what its quality can sustain. Otherwise, there wouldnít be a backlash, right? Most folks would accept that the work is really that good. DAYD was technically competent melodrama (give or take some wonky narrative-work and dodgy subtext), which ranks it pretty highly as fanfic goes, but it got severely oversold by its author and fans. The nasty little twist was that that was because it was one of a series of the authorís cult recruitment tools, designed to be superficially appealing in order to draw in kids with a useful lack of critical thinking skills.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Primis He / Him from Nsburg
He / Him
Sep 28th 2018 at 4:29:23 PM

The Scrappy Mechanic entry on YMMV.Pokemon Go seems absurdly long. I'd post it here, but it's literally several pages long.

Sep 30th 2018 at 12:26:25 PM

YMMV.Street Fighter V has a LOT of problems. Since the game's characters/costumes are released in installments, episodic troping, complaining, etc. is almost inevitable. Some of these examples were removed from Hype Backlash via the cleanup thread only to be readded by PF under Internet Backdraft.

"A lot of fans were excited about the first DLC character Alex, who was set to appear in March 2016. As the month progressed, fans weren't happy that the first batch of DLC was released at the end of March."

"The game has been hit with this following its release due to a lack of various modes that just about all modern fighting games have, as well as the game's servers being unstable and a general lack of single player content. It has received mainly negative reviews on Steam and Metacritic so far."

"A number of fans of IV are upset that Capcom made this to be more accessible for new players, complaining about the game being catered towards "Scrubs" and thus not as deep or fun as earlier installments. This, ironically enough, is in spite of the fact that IV, despite its difficulty in high-level play, was also designed to be a jumping-on point for newcomers as opposed to the mechanically deep Alpha 3 or 3rd Strike, earning it the same complaints from the SF fanbase that were established prior to IV. Everything's come full circle."

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Crossover-Enthusiast Random Avatar Month: Day 25 from quarantine (send Red Lobster biscuits) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Random Avatar Month: Day 25
Oct 3rd 2018 at 5:43:41 AM

I'm trying to figure out which examples in TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot.Steven Universe are actual examples and which are just added from one person's ideas or complaining. The giant Wall of Text that is Ronaldo's entry in particular could seriously use some looking at.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Oct 3rd 2018 at 8:43:22 AM

What's your favorite type of pie?
Oct 3rd 2018 at 5:29:38 PM

They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character and They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot were added as commented out ZCE to YMMV.Spiders And Magic Rise Of Spider Mane. I removed them because I think it crosses into baseless complaining unless they have the content to back it up. Is that OK?

Edit: they added this:

%%* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: ComicBook/{{Venom}} lacks the moral complexity of his comic counterpart, and is instead regulated to being just another villain.

If they're not confident enough to uncomment it out, is it worth keeping. Also, misuse because trope is about lack of screen time, not handling.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Oct 3rd 2018 at 5:36:10 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast Random Avatar Month: Day 25 from quarantine (send Red Lobster biscuits) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Random Avatar Month: Day 25
Oct 3rd 2018 at 6:03:04 PM

[up] Could maybe work if it was rewritten, but as is it should be cut.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Oct 3rd 2018 at 9:03:03 AM

What's your favorite type of pie?
Oct 5th 2018 at 2:42:23 PM

Timber Spruce from Characters.My Little Pony Equestria Girls Supporting Cast:

  • Karma Houdini: Despite unintentionally causes things to get as bad as they did at Camp Everfree, nobody calls him out for his role in causing the problem. He even claims during the party at the end that he was the one who saved everyone instead of the one who put them in danger.
  • Never My Fault: His joking It's All About Me attitude comes off as this during the ending party when he claims that he was the one who saved the day instead of Twilight and her friends because he saved Twilight from a (minor) fall on the docks so she could save everyone. But she wouldn't have needed to save everyone if Timber hadn't of accidentally made things worse for her and the campers by lying to them and covering for his sister instead of simply explaining the problem right away. Despite this though, nobody holds anything against him.
  • Unwitting Instigatorof Doom: He is actually unintentionally responsible for most of Twilight's worries during "Legend of Everfree" and for things getting as bad as they did overall. By trying to cover for his sister using magic and making up a campfire story instead of just explaining to the campers what was really happening, he made Twilight more and more paranoid that Midnight Sparkle was still inside her and was the true cause of everything magical happening around camp and only made her feel worse and worse. Also, because he constantly covered for Gloriosa, she didnít get the help she really needed, which contributed to her growing more unhinged and and being corrupted by the geodes' power. If everyone knew the truth sooner they could have helped Gloriosa long before she put their lives in danger.. So, he is more or less responsible for the main conflict of the film going as far as it did, all because of his well-meaning but overall bad lie.

I wonder if this crosses into character bashing? It notes some of this is played for laughs and was unintentional anyway.

HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Oct 8th 2018 at 6:16:02 PM

A recent edit to Esoteric Happy Ending by one RGZ Re GZ seems quite biased to me. They grouped all quote-unquote Christian literature on the page into one heading, putting mostly inoffensive stuff like The Chronicles of Narnia and Hans Christian Andersen in the same category as fundamentalist hate literature such as Turner Diaries and Victoria.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Oct 8th 2018 at 8:17:01 AM

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
miraculous "Greetings and bienvenue!" from South Africa
"Greetings and bienvenue!"
Oct 11th 2018 at 1:06:55 AM

[up]I reported them on Ask The Tropers and got it reverted.

"You're fighting the sideshow and missing the circus boy. This is one insignificant battle in a global war."

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