Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

In the Cinderella tales, the family usually live in either mansion or a castle, depending on setting. She has to maintain the entire estate — that cooking, cleaning, collecting food, getting food from market, maintaining the clothing and belongings of the step-family. Catering to visitors of the step-family. In the episode, Cinder is only ever shown cleaning and serving. Things like cooking, obtaining food ingredients, and other things are never addressed in the episode. We don't know if the step-family did that, or whether there was other staff that just didn't appear in the episode. What we do know is that the step-sisters actually did do serving as well, so Cinder wasn't doing that specific job alone.

It's not as straight-forward as the entry is claiming, and what the character was actually capable doing (versus what he actually did) is something we're never told. People who complain that he could have done X, Y or Z instead of what he did are making assumptions about something that the work has never told us. For example, that he should have gone to the police, or contacted child services. We have absolutely no idea how they function in Atlas or whether they'd have even cared.

What we do know is that Atlas is a city of extremely wealthy, self-absorbed people who treat the rest of the world (including the second city that makes up their kingdom) as being beneath them, and their entire society runs on inequality and segregation. One of the main protagonists is native to this city and is introduced as an Academic Alpha Bitch who has to go through Took a Level in Kindness during the time she lives away from Atlas. When she's later shown within her society, she doesn't fit in any more because of her character development. Meanwhile, her father is a mining tycoon who is actively perpetrating abuse against his workforce, and there's no legal recourse or interest in Atlas to stopping him — in fact, the reason his daughter wanted to become a Huntress was because she thought it was the only way to saving her family name and changing her company in the long-term... so her conclusion is actually quite similar to Rhodes (use the Huntsmen Academies to solve the problem in the long-run, but act like nothing else can be done in the short-term).

So, given that, how would the authorities the example wanted contacted function in that setting? We don't have a clue, so assuming that such services exist and would even care about Cinder's plight is something we cannot verify, let alone claim he definitely could and should have done. It's a big discussion point in the fandom precisely because we don't know what alternatives would have been possible, and whether any would have existed at all given what shitty society Atlas set up to be.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 8th 2022 at 6:41:10 AM

Okay, well, then it sounds like the example can just be cut due to inaccuracies, but I will say that the criticisms in the examples are criticisms I've also heard before even as someone who doesn't watch or care about RWBY. So there's at least still a legit audience reaction buried in here of "her backstory is ridiculous" even if the actual details are more complicated than this example claims.

There is a valid audience reaction out there, yes. I don't know which YMMV item to use at this time, otherwise I'd have suggested a rewrite and re-link. For now, Rhodes is objectively troped as Unwitting Instigator of Doom (he trained someone he knew had a killer instinct and was being abused, effectively giving her the very skills that make her such a dangerous villain now) and To Be Lawful or Good (lawful; he made it clear his decisions were driven by legal options, which left her in an abusive environment for years — as you mentioned above, that's not something that can qualify as "good"). For now though, a suitable YMMV option seems to be elusive.

Edited to add: the audience reaction is not narm-based (which is one of the reasons why the "laughing" references are just tacked on), however. It's full-blown "why do that instead of X, Y or Z <cue debate about whether X, Y or Z are possible in that setting>". There's general consensus in the fandom that expecting a child to put up with seven years of abuse is indeed ludicrous — but that isn't "ludicrously funny", it's "ludicrously awful". That's the general audience attitude towards Rhodes' decisions. If you know of a suitable YMMV option I can salvage the entry for on the basis of what I've described, I'll take it. Or I can ask on trope finder?

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 11th 2022 at 9:40:13 AM

This example from Evoland feels a bit too complainy (specifically, the "wouldn't be a problem if their execution wasn't so uninspired" part):

• Reference Overdosed: The amount of shout-outs wouldn't be a problem if their execution wasn't so uninspired, turning a video game which is meant to be an homage into a parody of other games (namely, Final Fantasy VII). It's difficult to tell whether/when it's an Affectionate Parody or a commentary on how top-down Role Playing Games have evolved, or both, really. It's quite easy to get the impression that they're taking the piss out of Final Fantasy and Diablo while also exposing their worst excesses.

As someone who played the game, it's true that a lot of it parodies/references specific games/series like Zelda and Final Fantasy (and I'd say it goes under "both, really"), but I'd remove the complaining and reword the first part to something like "The amount of shout-outs can make it difficult to tell..."

Edited by Zanreo on Dec 11th 2022 at 9:47:32 PM

• Reference Overdosed: The game uses a lot of homages to classic RPG games to show evolution in gameplay. There are segments that play like The Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy and Diablo, alongside multiple story nods to Final Fantasy VII to the point of Affectionate Parody.

Edited by Amonimus on Dec 11th 2022 at 1:03:45 PM

Ok yeah, that sounds much better. Just gonna change that then

I've noticed the page is filled with ZCE and snark, so alongside splitting it may need an overhaul in genral.

Also, I noticed both the links to the original version from the game jam (even with Wayback Machine) and the game website are both broken, so should those just be removed?

edit: found a working version elsewhere so just gonna replace it with that

Edited by Zanreo on Dec 11th 2022 at 11:38:36 AM

The whole final section of True Meaning of Christmas is way too snarky, cynical and self-righteous, acting like Christmas has no significance besides its Historical relevance, which is honestly counter-intuitive to the page. It even potholes itself to Soapbox Sadie.

The blue link to Soapbox Sadie can be safely cut without losing anything important.

That whole paragraph is unneeded, the earlier one using the example of five actual holiday specials is far more informative. Cut it.

Every Touhou Project spin-off page (Touhou Kourindou ~ Curiosities of Lotus Asia, Touhou Sangetsusei, Touhou Bougetsushou, Touhou Ibarakasen ~ Wild and Horned Hermit, Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery) has the same line:

Give that bit the good ol' Fantasy Seal/Master Spark combo. On all of those pages.

Edited by Berrenta on Dec 12th 2022 at 12:36:06 PM

done.

done

Someone wanna double-check Typos's recent edits to a bunch of Miraculous Ladybug recap pages? They have a salty vibe to us but we're not sure if it's crossing the line yet.

• Kathryn Janeway of Star Trek: Voyager has occasionally been Lawful Stupid. Several times she has refused to take an opportunity to get the ship home because it would require going against the "values" of the Federation. This isn't always a bad thing, mind — the Federation was envisioned as a near-idealistic society so it would have some values worth keeping to — but it grated on some viewers after a while. And if she had, the show would have been over. Was lampshaded in an episode, where a holographic simulation shows the Maquis taking over Voyager, because of their frustration over Janeway's Lawful Stupid tendencies. In "Madame Captain's" defense, though, the Prime Directive seemed to require this of Starfleet officers. There were times when Janeway's stupid insistence on following this or that rule was so obviously jeopardizing the lives of the crew that any sane and reasonable life-form would have knocked her out and taken over the ship. And then she'd suddenly decide to pull something underhanded in an attempt to get home, before going back to acting all high-and-mighty again, which made her look like the biggest hypocrite. No offense to Kate Mulgrew, the character was just badly written, with multiple writers adding to the problem.

I'm itching to remove that last sentence...

There's not a single example in that "example."

Just a lot of "several times" and "some viewers" and "there were times" and "she'd pull something."

What somethings? When were these times? What, specifically did she do or not do that was Lawful Stupid?

Reading that paragraph tells me nothing more about why she was actually Lawful Stupid than I or anyone else might have known beforehand. Examples should be specific—an episode title wouldn't go amiss, as well as a specific description of a situation.

As is, I'd cut the entire thing.

Edited by ArthurEld on Dec 14th 2022 at 11:56:38 AM

Thank you! I thought so too but was too afraid to say it.

For Typos, a query was already made adressing the topic and, on top of that, they edit warred over an Informed Wrongness entry they put about 10 months ago. So yeah, I reverted what I could.

Edited by skan123 on Dec 15th 2022 at 2:22:47 AM

While I was helping clearing out Tier Induced Scrappy wicks, I found this on Memes.BlazBlue, and I think its somewhat complain-y, But I wanna make sure.

• Just wait for CF Extend. ^note The timing of the releases between the Japanese and the West for the console version of Central Fiction were more than unfortunate. There were reports by players who just bought CPEX in the West only for CF to be announced in Japan some time later. The Capcom Sequel Stagnation for CS (CS > CSII > CSEX) that started this trend and the fact the CP wasn't even supposed to get an Extend version at first according to Word of God ticked off many fans who felt that they were being scammed into buying multiple copies of the same installment. So when CF was first announced for consoles, many fans said in the comments section of the YouTube announcement video to just wait for CF Extend or a console port to PC, which was often taken as a sign that this was definitely the last game to be released for that particular installment, leading to Mori's statement that there wouldn't be an Extend version for CF to be taken with a grain of salt, effectively crippling sales in the debut period. Suffice to say, this might be one of the reasons why Arc System Works decided No Dub for You upon console release. Makes you wonder how franchises that pull off this practice more often didn't get slammed like this.

That definitely looks like complaining. I'm not sure if it's actually a meme, but if it is, large portions of the context would have to be cut out or rewritten.

Assuming that's a meme (I don't know if it is one or not), that'll need to be tweaked so it sounds less like complaining and isn't a Wall of Text.

The Film page of Cruel Mercy example of Hard to Kill seems to complain about the writing and Steven Seagal in general. Here's some examples with highlighted (bold) words.

• Hard to Kill:
  • The ending features Steven Seagal's attempt at this trope. After roughing up the villain anyway, he tells him, "Death is far too merciful a fate for you. So what I'm going to do is put you in prison. A nice petite white boy like you in a federal penitentiary... now let me just put it this way: I don't think you'll be able to remain anal-retentive for very long."
  • He does much the same thing to the Big Bad of Fire Down Below, disabling his enemy with one shot instead of killing him, for much the same reasons as the above flick. No one ever accused Steven Seagal movies of an abundance of originality.

So cut the highlighted words? Also what's the meaning of the last sentence?

Edited by Bubblepig on Dec 15th 2022 at 9:57:50 AM

Doesnt matter since it's whining and or snark either way. Cut cut cut!

Edited by AegisP on Dec 15th 2022 at 9:58:24 AM