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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#10651: Oct 25th 2022 at 11:31:09 PM

Again, Hypocrite and Double Standard have come up time and time again because nobody knows what the hell these tropes are meant to be about. So while I maintain they're misuse, who can actually say for sure?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#10652: Oct 25th 2022 at 11:59:42 PM

While I have own opinions on the three mentioned tropes, this isn't TRS. I suggest focusing back on toning down the example' writing where needed.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#10653: Oct 26th 2022 at 12:00:48 AM

Well, whether or not the examples are misuse was the original question asked, which is why that's what I was focused on. I agree that the legit ones can be rewritten... but not all of them are legit.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#10654: Oct 26th 2022 at 2:12:59 AM

I'm not sure where else to bring this up, but this bit on Romantic False Lead is twisted to sound worse than it is. (From Futurama, semi-obviously.)

  • Adlai Atkins (Leela's plastic surgeon), whose main flaw is that he wanted to remove the extra ear on an orphan named Sally. (He was also willing to marry Leela and adopt said girl. Being an orphan himself, he knows firsthand how cruel the orpaharium can be for those who look different.) It gets hypocritical when Leela insists Sally is fine the way she is, only to act squicked out when Sally adds that she also has a tail. It's obvious the real flaw with Adlai is that he simply isn't Fry.

This is missing like... most of the episode's context? The episode makes it clear from the get-go that Adlai is an Indubitably Uninteresting Individual, and his kindness towards Leela involves giving her a surgery to make her look "normal" (i.e. two-eyed) and only then is he attracted to her. (He was bullying her for her looks in a flashback just with all the others.) It's pretty much implied he doesn't like Leela unless she conforms to his standards of normalcy, which is resolved via the Be Yourself aesop.

I mean, it's still an example, but the entry's kind of twisting it to sound worse than it is in context. I can't speak on the bit on Sally cuz I don't remember if Leela's reaction to her tail was all that harsh, but it's not even necessary. It's like an Informed Wrongness entry in disguise.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
wookywok Since: Jan, 2013
#10655: Oct 26th 2022 at 7:31:45 AM

Okay, so I know WMG is always a bit of a grey area, but I think this deserves a look.

From the WMG page for Mario Kart:

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is merely intended as Filler while Nintendo works on the actual Mario Kart Switch game.
Not even Nintendo would be dumb enough to make the only Mario Kart on their new system a crappy port of a game that everyone's already played years prior, and which spits in the face of anyone who did so. Deluxe is merely intended as cheap filler, as a cheap time-consumer while Nintendo works on the actual Switch game.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#10656: Oct 26th 2022 at 8:35:48 AM

[up]Yeah, that can go. It's a ridiculously minority opinion that the port is in any way poor, and "everyone played years earlier" can only be a deliberate disregardation of the Wii U's poor sales.

My musician page
wookywok Since: Jan, 2013
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#10658: Oct 26th 2022 at 11:17:02 AM

[up](x7) Honestly, in my opinion both of their pages clearly explain what they are.

[up](x4) Yeah, I agree that it sounds like that. I also feel the context should be added.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#10659: Oct 26th 2022 at 12:01:57 PM

Sorry for multiposting. I was thinking of converting a Take That, Scrappy! entry from YMMV.My Brave Pony Starfleet Magic to a Catharsis Factor one because the entry is misused as the former. This is because the character is hated by the work's detractors instead the work's fans. Plus, the fanfic has more haters than fans. For the record, part of why I'm bringing this up is because I want to be sure the new entry doesn't have complaining since the previous does.

    Here's the original 
* Take That, Scrappy!: Rhymey is one of the more hated original characters because his personality is mostly him speaking in nothing but rhymes, and unfortunately, not good ones. note  An unintentional example happens when he confronts Ace Ray in My Brave Pony: Starfleet Magic III, who is in the process of making points about Unicornicopia that are more valid than the author realizes.
Rhymey: There's no need to make a fuss / there is nothing he can do to us.
Ace Ray: And you... will YOU STOP WITH THAT RHYMING!

Here's what I would like to put it as a Catharsis Factor entry. However, I'm still not completely sure if the quotes are needed (or at least the Funny Moments pothole).
* Catharsis Factor: An unintentional example with Rhymey. He's one of the more hated original characters because his detractors hate how his personality is mostly him speaking in rhymes and they consider them poor. Hence, they found it satisfying in My Brave Pony: Starfleet Magic III when Ace Ray angrily tells Rhymey to quit rhyming.
Rhymey: [to his allies] There's no need to make a fuss / there is nothing [Ace] can do to us.
Ace: And you... will YOU STOP WITH THAT RHYMING!
What do you all think?

DongwaChan (Apprentice)
#10660: Oct 26th 2022 at 1:04:43 PM

[up] Cut both the quotes and the pothole.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#10661: Oct 26th 2022 at 1:13:36 PM

[up]Ok. Also, what do you otherwise think of the entry?

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#10662: Oct 26th 2022 at 1:29:23 PM

@Mightymewtron: Yeah, that entry needs to be rewritten. Adlai is a Romantic False Lead, but the entry isn't focused on that and cares more about making excuses for him.

Plus, Leela didn't even react to Sally saying she had a tail, so that entry just made stuff to make her look like a hypocrite.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Oct 26th 2022 at 4:29:47 AM

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#10663: Oct 26th 2022 at 1:29:27 PM

@mightymewtron: Been a long time since I saw the whole episode, but "It's pretty much implied he doesn't like Leela unless she conforms to his standards of normalcy" lines up with my impressions. I checked out the scene with Sally saying she has a tail, and Leela doesn't react to the statement at all. Also the Freakiness Shame pothole is misuse.

DongwaChan (Apprentice)
#10664: Oct 26th 2022 at 3:06:50 PM

[up][up][up] After turning it into a Catharsis Factor entry, give it a re-write to sound less complainy.

[up] I agree, the whole Leela entry needs a re-write

Edited by DongwaChan on Oct 26th 2022 at 6:06:58 AM

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#10665: Oct 26th 2022 at 3:46:41 PM

[up]I'm sorry, however, I don't see how my rewrite is complaining. (For the record, his rhyming actually doesn't bother me.) EDIT: If you could clear that up, that would be helpful. Thanks.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Oct 26th 2022 at 3:53:47 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#10666: Oct 26th 2022 at 3:48:40 PM

Okay, I rewrote the Adlai entry to be less complainy and focus more on what happens in the episode (as well as the contrast with her relationship with Fry in that episode, which is kind of integral to the trope).

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#10667: Oct 26th 2022 at 3:53:25 PM

[up]I checked your re-written version, and I think the entry is good now.

SkylaNoivern Since: Sep, 2016
#10668: Oct 27th 2022 at 9:41:50 AM

On Honest John's Dealership:

  • The wedding industry. Many times, couples are charged 2 or 3 times for a 3-tier wedding cake as they would be for a 3-tier birthday cake, or for wedding and engagement rings vs. other types of rings. Wedding planners, venue owners, caterers, bands and DJs, bridal magazines, photographers, jewelers, bridal salons, etc. all push the idea that it's justified because "you only do this once," and "don't you want to be Princess for a Day?" They also play on the idea that if you spend more, it shows your partner that you love them more, or will go to any length to make them happy...and also on the idea that you should try to one-up all your friends' and siblings' weddings. Even if it means starting a marriage tens of thousands of dollars in debt for a party.
    • The funeral industry does the same thing. They have been known to prey on the emotions of grieving family members, encouraging/guilt-tripping them to buy expensive caskets (when a simpler one, or cremation, or "natural burial" would do just fine), or having the body embalmed (when refrigerating it would be sufficient to keep it in decent shape for an open-casket funeral.)
  • The egg-freezing industry. Egg-freezing originally started as a way for women who would be undergoing chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy during their fertile years, and who still wanted to have kids (or have more kids) later to preserve their eggs before treatment (that would destroy their eggs otherwise), or for women who were undergoing IVF but weren't so keen on the idea of creating "extra" embryos or freezing embryos indefinitely, or women who have a family history of early menopause. That's all well and good, it was soon marketed towards women in their 20s and 30s (perhaps those who wanted to focus on their careers), who weren't gearing up for IVF or chemo. The marketing was based on the idea that fertility declines sharply after age 35, so it's best to extract and freeze the eggs now and thaw them out later when the woman is ready to "settle down" and start a family. What they don't tell their prospective clients, however, is that an embryo made from these frozen eggs has a less than 50% chance of resulting in a successful pregnancy...and that healthy pregnancies in older women are a lot more common than many people think, meaning that a) there's a good chance a client might get pregnant the old-fashioned way later than she ever thought possible (or simply change her mind), and b) in many cases, freezing your eggs in your 20's or 30's is completely unnecessary in the first place. Oh, yeah, and the process of obtaining the eggs involves taking hormones and other drugs that can have side-effects, and the actual procedure is invasive...and that it's an expensive procedure that is almost never covered by even top-notch medical insurance in the US (and may not be covered by the government elsewhere). (And that's not including the cost of the IVF procedure if and when their owner does decide to use them...which is also almost never covered.)

Is it just me not being American enough to get it, or do these entries feel a little... off? Might just be the Family Versus Career link in the embryo-freezing entry.

Edited by SkylaNoivern on Oct 27th 2022 at 5:43:14 PM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#10669: Oct 27th 2022 at 9:43:21 AM

Why does that even have a RL section?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
SkylaNoivern Since: Sep, 2016
#10670: Oct 27th 2022 at 9:46:34 AM

[up] I would have asked the same question.

katrinahood Since: Feb, 2013
#10671: Oct 27th 2022 at 11:00:47 AM

Yeah... I feel like that trope should have a "no real life examples, please" policy.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#10672: Oct 27th 2022 at 11:01:33 AM

We're discussing it here.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
DongwaChan (Apprentice)
#10673: Oct 27th 2022 at 1:31:30 PM

[up] I'm for cutting the real life section as well.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#10674: Oct 27th 2022 at 1:33:58 PM

Then discuss on the linked thread.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
cheesythegreat Your Fournor from the silly dimension :] (Apprentice) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Your Fournor
#10675: Oct 28th 2022 at 4:37:46 AM

This entry from ScareEmStraight.Advertising (in the North America folder) feels pretty complainy with the "they explain this so terribly" part;

Join the Object Show Cleanup Thread! (they/them)

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