Inspired by this thread
, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.
As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.
So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.
The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.
Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM
Walking with Dinosaurs has this entry. I bolded the part I find complainy:
- The scene in "New Dawn" where giant ants devour a Gastornis chick alive is particularly horrific, depicting the chick struggling to hatch from its egg as the ants swarm all over its body, leaving only its skeleton behind once they're done. This, along with the mother returning only to find the remains of her chick, caused many viewers to hate not only the entire ant lineage, but even ant-scientists and ant-lovers since watching this scene. Zoologists and environmentalists have to thank Walking With a lot.
I feel like this is an exaggeration. I can see someone developing a fear of ants from this scene, but extending that hatred to people who study ants? I feel like that's never happened. I also doubt world conservation efforts have been affected by this one show either.
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As a fan of the series, while that scene is infamous among the fandom I've never heard that it had any Jaws-style influence on how people view ants.
Edited by harryhenry on Sep 15th 2022 at 11:22:34 AM
Trivia.Total Drama has some Creator's Pest entries that seem speculative at best and thinly-veiled complaining at worst. There's no source on any of this.
- Creator's Pest:
- It's implied that Courtney is one, at least to the post All-Stars writing team. If her out of the blue Humiliation Conga in "Sundae Muddy Sundae" wasn't an indication, Word of God has stated they have no intention of redeeming Courtney as many fans wanted.
- It's all but stated that Ezekiel is this, at least to some of the writers. Initially intended as an expendable early boot, the writers eventually brought him back for World Tour due to his unexpected popularity... at which point he was made to look like a fool, wound up the first eliminated again and eventually got turned into a barely-sapient feral monster. Even afterwards, the writers seemed to take delight in repeatedly bringing him back solely to inflict abuse upon him while refusing to change him back or do anything with him beyond the gag.
- Duncan to Ed MacDonald. The first episode Ed wrote for the delinquent in All-Stars involved him having a one-episode obsession with Courtney in "Moon Madness", to justify the breakup of Duncan/Gwen. The second episode Ed wrote for Duncan involved him having an intense mental breakdown over being seen as soft. He ended up blowing up Chris McLean's mansion, leading to him being Put on a Prison Bus, with his exclusive clip implying Prison Rape.
From Creator's Pest, for Miraculous Ladybug:
- Chloé also seems to have become this for Astruc, though this is mostly due to him being frustrated with fans who dislike the direction he took with her character, especially after season 2 and 3 show that she could change if guided only to relapse at the end of season 3 by willingly joining forces with the main antagonist.
This has to go for the same reasons as
, right? There's another entry for Felix that directly cites Astruc.
Edited by badtothebaritone on Sep 16th 2022 at 3:36:22 AM
I mean, Astruc has said on Twitter something to the effect of "Chloe is irredeemable", so there is evidence to suggest he does hate her.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI mean... obviously the context matters here?
All I'm saying is that there's reason to believe Astruc doesn't like Chloe, and that tweet is often brought up as evidence. Not as the full got'cha moment, but a pretty revealing tweet in the context of what he's referring to and the rest of his actions surrounding Chloe as a character.
Obviously irredeemable =/= pest, but I think the Chloe issue is more complex than that.
Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 16th 2022 at 4:55:11 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallBut then couldn't you say the same for the Courtney example? Personally I think a character being irredeemable =/= "bad character" and some creators may enjoy writing a villain and giving them comeuppance. Creator's Pest is when they hate writing the character, whether they make that clear in the work or not.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Like I said, context matters. I don't remember all of the details of the Chloe drama but it doesn't stop at the "irredeemable" tweet, that's just one that gets brought up a lot considering she's a teenage girl with an abusive mother and not the one actively trying to destroy Paris in every episode. Like... part of the controversy is the fact that he's even labeling Chloe as a villain at all and has actively argued with people on Twitter before for liking her and wanting to see her have a redemption arc.
I could've been more clear in my first post but again I wasn't even intending that to be all the evidence, more as an example of the sort of discourse surrounding Chloe and why people think Astruc hates her. Other things people bring up are the introduction of Zoe (basically "Chloe but good", and the next Bee-Miraculous holder to replace Chloe in the group), how he's treated actual fans of the character (comparing them to literal abuse apologists at one point) and how the narrative basically did a 180 and reverted back to making her a 1-Dimensional Alpha Bitch.
Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 16th 2022 at 5:03:34 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallDoes he hate her, or is he only frustrated with her Misaimed Fandom? Big difference.
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Right, my main point was just trying to prove that Astruc does seem to be very anti-Chloe... though there's never a point where he just comes out and says it which is exactly why things like the "unredeemable" tweet are used as evidence in the first place. Do you get what I'm trying to say and why I keep bringing up the context stuff?
I mean... depends on if you consider Chloe fans a "Misaimed Fandom". I mean he did set her up for a possible redemption arc, showed her to have family problems, showed her to really care about being a hero like Ladybug even if she was impulsive and selfish... and then started sniping at people who got upset when she became a villain out of seemingly nowhere. So it depends on if you think those fans were wrong to begin with or if they're upset that he pulled the rug out from under them and then mocked them for it. Both interpretations are possible but the show itself implied Chloe could be redeemed, which doesn't seem to be fodder for a Misaimed Fandom, rather than a confused one.
If it's not clear I'm not a major fan of Astruc but I'm trying to be neutral here, it's just difficult when the topic of discussion is whether or not he's in the right or just arbitrarily hates Chloe
Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 16th 2022 at 5:22:02 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallYeahhhh, that's really the biggest obstacle here.
Astruc has never outright said that he hates Chloe. He's also never outright said that making her irredeemable was the plan from the start, or that he'd rather make her a villain because he enjoys her more that way. What he has done was get into battles on Twitter and be rude to the people who didn't like the direction he took her in, and it's his response to that criticism that makes it appear like he hates Chloe in general.
He's sort of weird about these things and has trouble making his exact motivations clear, instead he typically resorts to attacking the people he's in a disagreement with. So it's really difficult to ascertain anything other than what his tweets say and what the implications of those tweets are.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallUntil Astruc outright says he dislikes Chloe, we're just playing games with author intent. If I know anything from The Scrappy thread, that's a no-no.
Edited by badtothebaritone on Sep 16th 2022 at 4:36:58 AM
I mean... yeahhh... I guess that's what it comes down to. However implied his feelings are, we can only use cases where the creator outright confirms it.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

I tweaked it a bit.
Once Upon A Time.