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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#10276: Sep 12th 2022 at 9:02:22 PM

im not gonna fight to have it kept on the page, that's for sure.

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#10277: Sep 12th 2022 at 9:20:29 PM

Update: The Franchise Original Sin trope on that same page also mentions them being non-binary.

Edited by Siegfried1337 on Sep 12th 2022 at 9:21:58 AM

Eh, good enough.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#10278: Sep 12th 2022 at 10:07:32 PM

I guess I've seen the perception that the Jimquisition has suffered a quality decrease in terms of having gotten stale and repetitive these days, including from folks who are themselves nonbinary. I get that it's partially the point, that they're speaking truth to power on issues that persist throughout the industry, but I have to admit even I have not watched their videos as often as I used to, mostly because I already know what they're going to say, and it was before they openly transitioned. If I do watch their videos, it's more likely to be the review-related videos or more specific stuff like Gilson B. Pontes.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 12th 2022 at 1:09:52 PM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#10279: Sep 12th 2022 at 10:10:40 PM

And that's totally valid. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a Seasonal Rot entry. But transphobia shouldn't be part of it.

harryhenry It's either real or it's a dream Since: Jan, 2012
It's either real or it's a dream
#10280: Sep 12th 2022 at 10:17:16 PM

[up][up] And in that case, those elements should be the focus and not "oh no they're nonbinary now".

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#10281: Sep 12th 2022 at 10:18:23 PM

I'd cut the entry, partly because I feel enbyphobia and transphobia shouldn't be part of entries like these.

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#10282: Sep 12th 2022 at 11:24:57 PM

Forgot to mention the content for the Franchise Original Sin entry in the YMMV:

  • Franchise Original Sin: In the late 2010s and into the 2020s, a common criticism of the Jim Sterling media umbrella is that it tends to involve too much content unrelated to gaming and too many politics, not least regarding their own identity. From the very beginning, the show would frequently cover gaming-adjacent topics and some of the channel's most popular videos were discussing the initial trailer for Sonic the Hedgehog (2020), and even before that they released an entire video in the wake of Mass Effect 3 mocking those who felt offended or like their own sexuality was questioned by the inclusion of male homosexual romantic options and suggesting that it reflected a lack of confidence in their own straightness. And Jim themselves has often pointed out that they were taking potshots at corrupt and incompetent corporate culture and how it results in financially abusive and risk-averse creative practices from the earliest days of the channel, while flamboyantly making their lack of straightness clear. But this was also surrounded by plenty of game-related content like Let's Plays, and in light of their growing cynicism and disgust towards the seemingly ever-more-abusive and corrupt gaming industry (with aiding and abetting alleged sexual predators and letting them retire with golden parachutes after years of shuffling them around the company to cover for their toxic behavior being quite a leap from even preying on those with tendencies towards problem gambling to monetize titles), Jim has admitted to finding it increasingly hard to keep focusing on the same level of content production, especially after coming to feel they're not really doing anything to make things better. And between coming to view the abusive behaviors of the game industry as simply logical extensions of abuses inherent to capitalist economics and coming out as trans and non-binary at a time when many gamers see those identities as a hostile foreign invader to be shoved back in the closet, the politics are no longer "just" confined to how they intersect with gaming. Many former fans find this attitude browbeating and unfriendly, as if Jim has become outright hostile to the medium itself and to themselves as customers and their own sexualities on occasion when Jim's words come off as attacking people for being heterosexual. Jim has said that coming out as non-binary was the point that their subscribers fell off a cliff.

Yeah, this is basically a huge wall of text. Cut?

Eh, good enough.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#10283: Sep 13th 2022 at 12:10:16 AM

Go ahead and cut. The reason many people do tune in at this point is because they like the political commentary. There's also the folks who agree with the fundamental message but find it repetitive to tiresome, which is at very best It's the Same, So It Sucks.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 13th 2022 at 3:11:26 PM

ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#10284: Sep 13th 2022 at 12:14:09 AM

also, Steph's been bringing back more gaming videos lately, with Jimpressions and Squirty Plays making a comeback, and Podquisition never stopped, it just hit its 400th episode.

it also legitimizes the transphobic point of view by presenting it in neutral language.

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#10285: Sep 13th 2022 at 5:55:48 AM

Cut the FOS entry. I take issue with this line in particular:

and coming out as trans and non-binary at a time when many gamers see those identities as a hostile foreign invader to be shoved back in the closet

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
KUnlimited Since: Sep, 2020
#10286: Sep 13th 2022 at 6:12:38 AM

Speaking of Jim Sterling, I just found Creator.Digital Homicide. That page is littered with bashing (including in the description) and NRLEP tropes, for example:

  • A Fool for a Client: James Romine ended up representing himself during the lawsuit against Jim Sterling after he had no funds to hire an attorney. The reason was he couldn't sue under the name of Digital Homicide LLC as he had to have an attorney, and since Jim Sterling does no business in Arizona, the number of damages slowly rose from $10 million as the case went on.
  • Can't Take Criticism: The real reason why they took Jim Sterling to court.
  • Hollywood Law: A number of YouTubers provided examples of this during their lawsuit. Since the Romine brothers had no lawyer and ended up representing themselves, all corporations have to have a qualified attorney in order to sue. All they did was to waste the time and money of Jim Sterling; and while it did work in their favor, the filing was incoherent that it had to be dropped out of proceedings.

Honestly, given this and the nature of their games, I don't think this page should even exist.

Avatar by Butterscotch Arts. Used under license.
Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
TBJack The Destroyer of Food from Carolina, Puerto Rico Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
The Destroyer of Food
#10288: Sep 13th 2022 at 7:17:51 AM

Good grief. With the amount of back and fourth editing warring in James Stephanie Sterling's pages, we might have to create a dedicated cleanup thread for the Jimquisition ala Nostalgia Critic at this point.

Beware, I live!
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#10289: Sep 13th 2022 at 12:39:50 PM

Found this in Unfortunate Character Design:

  • In Xenoblade Chronicles 2, one of the blades you can summon, Dahlia, is a rabbit/centaur-like woman with Gag Boobs literally larger than her head; it's not commented on in-game, so it's clear the character designers were trying to make her "sexy" and vastly overshot. Not helping was the spread of this infamous picture online, in which a player who objected to Dahlia's design deliberately glitched her rigging to make her back appear unnaturally hunched forward, leading commenters to compare her physique with a bean bag or a jelly bean despite her posture being much more realistic in actual gameplay.

This might be a valid example, but much of the first half is complaining about fanservice, and the other half covers a glitch, which isn't part of the character design and probably shouldn't be counted. Any thoughts?

Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#10290: Sep 13th 2022 at 2:13:11 PM

[up] Remove the glitch part, since it doesn't really have much to do with the character design, and make the first half more neutral.

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#10291: Sep 13th 2022 at 2:19:25 PM

  • In Xenoblade Chronicles 2, one of the blades you can summon, Dahlia, has Gag Boobs larger than her head; they're clearly meant to be attractive, but their sheer size comes off as ridiculous for a lot of people.

Better?

Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#10292: Sep 13th 2022 at 2:31:18 PM

[up] looks decent

Edit: I think you should also check XC 2 YMMV page for any complaining regarding the designs and make them more neutral.

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Sep 13th 2022 at 4:33:25 PM

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#10294: Sep 13th 2022 at 5:11:19 PM

Another gushing/complaining combo: Space: Above and Beyond has "The show often focused on current issues and introduced moral dilemmas without being pathetically obvious" and "Fox, being Fox, dumped the show after one full season". Can I rewrite them to "The show focused on current issues and moral dilemmas" and "Fox cancelled the show after one full season"?

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#10295: Sep 13th 2022 at 5:12:46 PM

a note re: the Dahlia entry: no matter how big they are, they're not Gag Boobs if they're not played for comedy. Buxom Is Better might be a better choice there.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#10296: Sep 13th 2022 at 5:26:39 PM

Lemme change that real quick.

Edit: Done.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Sep 13th 2022 at 7:28:43 AM

BrianKT Since: Jan, 2020
#10297: Sep 13th 2022 at 8:04:31 PM

On the YMMV page of Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas, I've notice a couple of entries that have been on there for a while

  • The Scrappy: Angelique. All she does is wangst.
  • Wangst: Most of it comes from Beast and Angelique, who unlike the Beast has less of an emotional connection with the audience enough to lessen the reception to his grief.

And yet, there's also this

  • Jerkass Woobie: All Forte wanted was to be useful to the Beast and becoming his best friend, a thing he probably never was when he was human.

Now I have to ask, how come Forte, the Big Bad of the movie, mind you, counts as a Jerkass Woobie, but Angelique and the Beast don't?

katrinahood Since: Feb, 2013
#10298: Sep 13th 2022 at 8:15:13 PM

Probably something to do with double standards, so it's safe to cut all those entries, or, at the very least, commented out until a proper explanation can be given so they can stay.

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#10299: Sep 13th 2022 at 10:10:18 PM

Here’s a Jim Sterling FOS rewrite.

Franchise Original Sin: The most frequent criticisms of Jim’s content in the late 2010s to early 2020s is frequently repeating points, political soapboxing, and the overly caustic attitude displayed in their videos. These are things that have been in their show since the beginning but many have taken umbrage with these issues in their newer videos due to accusations of them repeating points far more often, shoehorning politics into videos where they have little relevance, and becoming increasingly antagonistic towards the gaming community as a whole.
Keep in mind I am only familiar with their newer videos and not their older ones.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Sep 15th 2022 at 9:32:48 AM

Once Upon A Time.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#10300: Sep 14th 2022 at 5:20:57 AM

That's better, although the grammar has some awkward repetition.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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