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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

BigJimbo Since: Dec, 2017
#10001: Aug 18th 2022 at 2:12:34 AM

On the subject of My Brave Pony: Starfleet Magic, I feel this entry in DesignatedHero.My Brave Pony Starfleet Magic is written in a very snarky way:

  • Twilight dies and rather than blame, you know, the killer for killing her, Starfleet blames Twilight for her own death. Yeah, Starfleet blames someone for their own death because they had the gall to disobey orders and try and fight someone who was a threat to someone they love.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#10002: Aug 18th 2022 at 5:35:28 AM

[up][up] I would generally agree with the idea that Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole can't apply to public domain adaptations, since there is no "original canon" to create plot holes in. However, I'm sure someone will come up with a specific example that might qualify.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nanakiro Since: Feb, 2011
#10003: Aug 18th 2022 at 8:46:58 AM

Bringing this up from YMMV.Omori, due to the unrelated potshot:

  • And You Thought It Would Fail: After six years in development, the struggle to move the game from RPG Maker VX to MV, the cancellation of the Nintendo 3 DS version, and the lack of communication between developers and backers, many expected the game to be the next Mighty No. 9: another broken game and another Kickstarter failure that didn't deliver what it was promised. Thankfully this wasn't the case: the game came out on Christmas Day 2020, and it got a lot of positive reception from backers and players alike.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#10004: Aug 18th 2022 at 9:03:46 AM

[up]Maybe just remove the mention and change "another" to "a" to make it not comparative.

My musician page
DustSnitch Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#10005: Aug 18th 2022 at 9:13:18 AM

It seems relevant since the example is about this game following the phenomenon of disappointing Kickstarter projects. Mighty No. 9 is the most infamous example of that in gaming, so mentioning it is a good short-hand for what people feared about this game.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#10006: Aug 18th 2022 at 9:18:18 AM

I don't have strong problem with the example, "The second MN 9" is exactly what people feared, though I think Omori development wasn't the only one with that concern.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#10007: Aug 18th 2022 at 10:01:36 AM

The first point of those Narm entries could be moved to Lost in Translation, though I'd like to see what they actually translated it into. Can anyone point me to a clip, or tell me how to search for it?

I also agree that AIPH doesn't work for fairy tales, because many of them already have very weak plot logic... in some tellings, there are others that make them more cohesive, which is another problem for any kind of "compared to the original" trope. It might be better as simple Plot Hole.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#10008: Aug 18th 2022 at 10:23:40 AM

DK Vine has a description analyzing the site's fault that feels unnecessary. IDK how to trim it though.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
PhantomDusclops92 Nitpicky Nitwit from Italy Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Nitpicky Nitwit
#10009: Aug 18th 2022 at 10:48:55 AM

About the Ghirahim line, I have to make notice that the Italian translation of The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, like most Italian translations of Nintendo games, is based on the original Japanese script, not on the English version.

DongwaChan (Apprentice)
#10010: Aug 18th 2022 at 6:33:05 PM

[up][up] Take the DK Vine page to Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

[up] I think we should either move the Ghirahim line to Lost in Translation or cut it.

Edited by DongwaChan on Aug 18th 2022 at 9:34:51 AM

Dramatic Since: Jun, 2012
#10011: Aug 18th 2022 at 9:32:03 PM

Here is the Italian version of the "sick with anger!" scene. This Lets Play confirms that it's the same in the Wii version as well.

Ma sul più bello è arrivata quella vecchia guastafeste serva della Dea...
Per questo motivo, adesso sono...
Oltremodo... incredibilmente... spaventosamente... di pessimo umore!!!

Google Translate gives me "Extremely... incredibly... frighteningly... in a very bad mood!!!", and after cross-checking with WordReference that seems to be accurate, though there are multiple direct translations of each adverb. The question is now does this actually read badly to an Italian speaker? Or is it a case of a dramatic character using dramatic language because they're dramatic?

As a reminder, the Narm entry claimed the translation was "I am incredibly... irreversibly... in a bad mood!".

Edited by Dramatic on Aug 18th 2022 at 9:41:14 AM

ChrisX ..... from ..... Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Singularity
.....
#10012: Aug 18th 2022 at 11:39:45 PM

This looks like an interesting topic, alongside the inversion (the Gushing removal topic). I'd like to see what I can do to help in order to practice non-biased editing. May I ask a few questions about how this topic works before I start giving out examples?

PhantomDusclops92 Nitpicky Nitwit from Italy Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Nitpicky Nitwit
#10013: Aug 19th 2022 at 9:00:33 AM

[up][up] As a native Italian speaker, I think a more correct translation would be like this:

I'm in an exceedingly... incredibly... scarily... bad mood!

Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#10014: Aug 19th 2022 at 4:30:25 PM

Having watched that Ghiraim clip, I can see how it might seem unfitting; it is odd that he would be using six-syllable words in a scene that suggests he is shouting them all in a blink. Not sure about it being narm though, as it fits the dialogue he's given, which is in a quite formal register, making him seem long-winded and pompous. Is this a consistent trait of his? (I also have to ask: why does he call himself "Patriarch of mages" when in English he is "Demon Lord"?)

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#10015: Aug 19th 2022 at 4:55:49 PM

[up][up][up] That isn't addressed in the thread's OP?

Dramatic Since: Jun, 2012
#10016: Aug 19th 2022 at 8:26:36 PM

I can confirm that Ghirahim is consistently overdramatic and a bit campy, so even if the words are a bit unwieldy if it fits his character then I don't think it counts. As PhantomDusclops92 suggested further up this page, it is possible that the Italian script is based on the Japanese version instead of English, which could account for more differences. I do agree "Demon Lord" is a lot more relevant of a title for what he does than "Patriarch of mages", so maybe a bit of Lost in Translation really is in play.

I'm happy to prune the Narm examples, alongside the Inferred Holocaust and Cliché Storm examples if people agree they aren't relevant and lean into complaining.

ChrisX ..... from ..... Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Singularity
.....
#10017: Aug 20th 2022 at 8:15:16 AM

@Tabs: So... It just works like 'put an entry that you feel a little problematic with bashing'?

There is one topic as listed with the link in the Original Post that I would like to focus heavily on. However, I feel like it may attract people accusing me of pushing an agenda or Righting Great Wrongs (which was why I got suspended before). Should I try my hand on it?

Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#10018: Aug 20th 2022 at 8:34:55 AM

This entry from Everyone Must Be Paired is a rather negative. The last two sentences can probably be cut.

  • In Ice Age: Collision Course, Sid laments that he is the only member of the original trio who doesn't have a mate. Naturally, he does get one at the end named Brooke. Unfortunately, she's a Satellite Love Interest who doesn't appear until the final act who literally asks him to marry her after spending only fourteen minutes together. (In-Universe! They barely have any development at all.)

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#10019: Aug 20th 2022 at 8:42:37 AM

That RWBY entry from over the page has been added back to the Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole page, claiming the thread has approved it. As far as I can see, most of the responses have questioned whether it's eligible for that trope at all.

I would also add that it's still not addressing the fact that the issue it's pointing out remains Fridge Logic (one person do all the work of either a mansion or a hotel). It's Fridge Logic in the original Cinderella, and it's still Fridge Logic now (this isn't relevant if it's not eligible for the trope in the first place). It's also still using complaining language in main text, like using Too Dumb to Live inappropriately, and using the note function to launch into a full-blown rant about how characters in the work could permit "legal" slavery loopholes to exist in the setting.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 20th 2022 at 8:55:40 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#10020: Aug 20th 2022 at 8:44:37 AM

It still doesn't count. Remove it.

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#10021: Aug 20th 2022 at 10:24:31 AM

Huge The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword fan here, right down to my username being the first two words to the Ballad of the Goddess in the Hylian language.

Ghirahim is to Demise as Fi is to Link as both Ghirahim and Fi are living embodiments of swords.

Ghirahim is so sadistic he even conducted a ritual to have the Imprisoned inhale Zelda's soul to become Demise, the predecessor to all Ganondorf reincarnations.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Aug 20th 2022 at 1:24:43 PM

Kirby is awesome.
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#10022: Aug 20th 2022 at 10:43:52 AM

Contractual Purity has several passages that seem to be railing, particularly against the Idol Singer industry. Take this for example:

  • Lest you think this is purely an American trope, try following any Teen Idol in Japan (even those grown into their twenties!) and you'll see this in spades. If a girl kisses, goes on a date, or heaven forbid, admits to having sex, she is torn apart by rabid fans who are apparently so lonely and hopeless, they can only imagine younger girls as a pristine virginal fantasy and the companies also enforce rules forbidding romantic relationships whatsoever. Anything that shatters that illusion brings on their vicious ire. Yeah, you think America's Moral Guardians are bad, they're still way behind hardcore Japanese Otaku.

Edit: Removed "stealth" because I'm an idiot

Edited by badtothebaritone on Aug 20th 2022 at 12:58:49 PM

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#10023: Aug 20th 2022 at 10:55:41 AM

[up]That's not stealth complaining, it's pretty much overt and in the open.

I do know that Asian idol groups (K-pop, J-pop, etc) are held to some ridiculous morality contracts, but there should be a less hostile way to express that.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#10024: Aug 20th 2022 at 10:59:50 AM

[up] Those moral contracts aren't even enforceable anymore (at least in Japan), so we'll have to bring the article up to date as well.

DongwaChan (Apprentice)
#10025: Aug 20th 2022 at 2:50:41 PM

[up] I agree with bringing the article up to date.


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