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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#9451: May 30th 2022 at 1:48:14 PM

[up] Cut it down to just "Harry screams in ALL CAPS a lot in this book" or something along those lines.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#9452: May 30th 2022 at 1:51:47 PM

Yeah, that seems fair enough. All Caps Harry really was a thing. Do mention the title though, as well as a little context for why he was like that.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#9453: May 30th 2022 at 1:55:24 PM

Would this have sufficient context?

  • CAPS LOCK: Harry yells in ALL CAPS quite a lot here compared to other books. Having a Psychic Link to an Ax-Crazy sociopath who's deliberately trying to screw with him does wonders to your composure.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#9455: May 30th 2022 at 3:21:22 PM

Fix the pronoun mismatch in "trying to screw with him does wonders to your composure", but yeah, it's good other than that.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
NoonboryKedabory Fanfic Advertiser from Toobalooba (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Fanfic Advertiser
#9456: May 31st 2022 at 11:04:20 AM

The Win Back the Crowd entry on Abominable is a bit complainy. I understand why Home, Trolls, and Boss Baby aren't the most well-beloved DreamWorks movies, but this is a bit much.

Number 1 CGI Fireman Sam defender
FirstAidRules He/Him from House (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: Singularity
He/Him
#9457: May 31st 2022 at 7:45:55 PM

Can I delete the Jerkass Ball and Unintentionally Unsympathetic from https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/TransformersPrimeS2E20Legacy? The Autobots were mad at Smokescreen because he recklessley endangered a human and then purposefully transformed when the guy threatened him to threaten the guy right back and he and Bumblebee were caught on camera, despite that being a big no-no. The Autobots were mad because Smokescreen broke two big rules.

Hi!
KUnlimited Since: Sep, 2020
#9458: Jun 1st 2022 at 3:49:01 AM

[up][up] Here's the entry, for reference:

The fact that it says "a minor case" makes me think it's trying to play with YMMV.


Here are the entries from [up]'s post:
  • Jerkass Ball: All Autobots (except Smokescreen) and Jack are extremely jerkish in this episode (but Arcee is the most of them all). For example, 1) they started Blame Game; 2) Jack become even more vindictive towards Vince in this episode; 3) at the last they're What the Hell, Hero? speech to Jack and Smokescreen is extremely rude and jerkish at this episode. The last could be justifies if not the fact that others (mostly Miko) done and will do worse mistakes and put many people and Autobots into extreme danger and only get with two minute long What the Hell, Hero? - speech on the spot and then it's like this incident was never happened in the first place. And it's maximum punishment for those gulty bots and humans. Plus, Optimus is a little jerkish, snarky and sly in this episode.
  • Unintentionally Unsympathetic: All Autobots (except Smokescreen) and Jack are extremely jerkish in this episode (but Arcee is the most of them all). For example, 1) they started Blame Game; 2) Jack become even more vindictive towards Vince in this episode; 3) at the last they're What the Hell, Hero? speech to Jack and Smokescreen is extremely rude and jerkish at this episode. The last could be justifies if not the fact that others (mostly Miko) done and will do worse mistakes and put many people and Autobots into extreme danger and only get with two minute long What the Hell, Hero? - speech on the spot and then it's like this incident was never happened in the first place. And it's maximum punishment for those gulty bots and humans. Plus, Optimus is a little jerkish, snarky and sly in this episode. So viewers (at least) loathes (again, at least) every character in this episode except Smokescreen and Decepticons while they should be portrayed as good guys.

I'm not familiar with Transformers, but those two entries are identical except for one extra sentence at the end of the second entry. So I feel like at least one of them should be cut for that reason alone.

Avatar by Butterscotch Arts. Used under license.
FirstAidRules He/Him from House (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: Singularity
He/Him
#9459: Jun 1st 2022 at 5:29:38 AM

[up] Well, whoever added the post seems to have left out why the Autobots are "unusually snarky" because the episode flat out explains it and the entries make it seem like the Autobots are ruder to each other for no reason.

Hi!
DongwaChan (Apprentice)
#9460: Jun 1st 2022 at 1:30:15 PM

[up] For the Abominable entry - cut it. For the Transformers one - clean it up.

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#9461: Jun 1st 2022 at 2:59:14 PM

It looks like someone has a bone to pick with Star Fox's English translations, based on the Characters pages. Take this on Characters.Star Fox Team; I previously changed some potholes to Cut And Paste Translation on Characters.Star Fox Star Wolf Team that actually referred to Dub Personality Change.

Keet cleanup
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#9462: Jun 1st 2022 at 3:16:50 PM

That reads more like Bowdlerization anyway, but too complainy to just move.

My musician page
FirstAidRules He/Him from House (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: Singularity
He/Him
#9463: Jun 1st 2022 at 4:34:47 PM

[up][up][up] How do I clean up the Transformers stuff?

Hi!
DongwaChan (Apprentice)
#9464: Jun 2nd 2022 at 12:09:23 PM

[up][up][up] Here's a suggestion. For the first one, cut out the numbering (and correct that grammar error), and cut out "And it's maximum punishment for those gulty bots and humans. Plus, Optimus is a little jerkish, snarky and sly in this episode." For the second one, cut it since it's just a copy of the first one.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#9465: Jun 2nd 2022 at 1:54:12 PM

I had noticed that this entry I added a while back was cut by this thread due to the Double Standard not being called out In-Universe. The thing is though that nowhere in the trope does it state that needs to be the case nor is the trope under In-Universe Examples Only. So I don't think the reason for deleting it is valid personally.

I will readd it unless anyone has any objections.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 5th 2022 at 9:38:23 AM

FirstAidRules He/Him from House (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: Singularity
He/Him
#9466: Jun 2nd 2022 at 6:03:52 PM

I'm gonna need some help with the Transformers stuff, please. There's a bit too much on the recap to fully reword and I'm afraid if I do, the person who added the tropes will add them right back.

Hi!
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#9467: Jun 3rd 2022 at 11:48:44 AM

Are people okay with me making the changes to the Hypocrite.Web Original page?

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#9468: Jun 3rd 2022 at 3:29:34 PM

I do have an objection to that. There is no rule that hypocrisy must be pointed out In-Universe so at the very least this entry should be fine:

  • Ironwood's early complaint about Ozpin hiding something becomes especially hypocritical when it's revealed that he hid Penny's true nature as an android up until her forced Robotic Reveal.

fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#9469: Jun 3rd 2022 at 5:24:15 PM

I found these on Little Clowns of Happytown:

  • Animation Age Ghetto: Despite its relative obscurity, it's pretty well known that the show was aimed at young children, but without any kind of nuance and care that most kids shows today have. This is justified as it's likely Moral Guardians were afraid kids shows in that era were giving their kids messages like "maybe somebody with a different opinion from the group has a point".
  • Heartwarming Moments: The show may not have much substance, but Blooper and Geek's relationship is actually pretty sweet. One of the heroes and one of the bad guys having a genuine and healthy relationship, and no one except the main villain even questions it. It's probably the single most redeeming aspect of the show.

KingLyger Multiverse Madness from Lost in Forever (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Multiverse Madness
#9470: Jun 3rd 2022 at 5:25:35 PM

This was just posted to Final Fantasy XVI on the YMMV page. Is this complaining, and should it be edited/removed?

  • Tainted by the Preview: Following the Dominance Trailer being released, many in the FF community were quite upset at the gameplay revealed. First, it's a Devil May Cry-esque Hack and Slash as opposed to a more traditional RPG, or even a hybrid system like Final Fantasy VII Remake. Second, the complete lack of any sort of party members has left many bemoaning the excision of the most enduring staple of mainline Final Fantasy games.

The fantasy RPG videos that play in my head are amazing.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#9471: Jun 3rd 2022 at 5:50:33 PM

It's been a pretty common reaction from my experience, so not necessarily. The fact that it's going to be more of an action game has been a huge point of contention among both longtime and casual series fans.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#9472: Jun 3rd 2022 at 6:43:02 PM

[up][up][up] That show was reviewed by The Mysterious Mr. Enter a while back (in a review that was basically a Political Correctness Is Evil rant, no less) and is probably why it's known here. I feel like Animation Age Ghetto is misuse (it's for shows that are misunderstood to be for children or more immature than they are, not for shows that fit that stereotype) and the Heartwarming entry can remove the "The show may not have much substance" bit.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 3rd 2022 at 9:43:40 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#9473: Jun 3rd 2022 at 7:27:54 PM

Right now, the YMMV page for Chrono Cross has a good deal of people grumbling about its plot and gameplay decisions. The bullet points under They Changed It, Now It Sucks! are the most obvious example, as they are used to air the writets' grievances and present them as objective fact.

Edited by MightyMatilda on Jun 3rd 2022 at 10:43:56 AM

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#9474: Jun 4th 2022 at 11:03:16 AM

I do have an objection to that. There is no rule that hypocrisy must be pointed out In-Universe so at the very least this entry should be fine:

  • Ironwood's early complaint about Ozpin hiding something becomes especially hypocritical when it's revealed that he hid Penny's true nature as an android up until her forced Robotic Reveal.

Hypocrite's IUEO requirement has been discussed in the past because it's an IUEO trope, explicitly includes an bold text warning in the trope description that it must be in-universe, but it's not on the IUEO index; that causes confusion. You don't need a character to say the actual words, but you do need the narrative to make it clear that the work is portraying the character as a hypocrite. Otherwise, it's just an audience reaction, which is misuse. The entry you cite here is audience reaction (and it's using Fridge Logic language).

Edit: Took me a moment to find the links.

An ATT thread established that Hypocrite is IUEO (which was a follow up from the Is This an Example? thread establishing the same). This led to a thread being started in Trope Talk, which led to me doing a wick check on how the trope is being used. But the discussion died without resolution, so hypocrite remains an IUEO trope that isn't on the IUEO index.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jun 4th 2022 at 11:26:01 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#9475: Jun 4th 2022 at 4:45:26 PM

That thread was a long time in the past though. The problem now though is that Moral Dissonance has been disambguated which used to be the Audience Reaction version of the trope but now we have nowhere to stick these tropes besides Hypocrite as they are valid examples so Hypocrite should cover both In-Universe and Audience Reaction. So there is nowhere to move these tropes if they are deleted so they should stay on Hypocrite for now.


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