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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#8801: Mar 10th 2022 at 7:41:08 PM

[up] I agree, and I had originally suggested def-only for that reason. If we're keeping it as a place to contain complaining though (like DMOS) then I'm OK.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8802: Mar 10th 2022 at 7:42:48 PM

Hmm, maybe I was wrong at the TNTRS thread. Maybe it does need further discussion. A trope talk thread if nothing else.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#8803: Mar 10th 2022 at 7:47:07 PM

Since Moral Guardians can have real life examples (and they're a subset of Periphery Hatedom), perhaps we can do something about both topes to be consistent and to avoid complaining as both are natural complaint magnets.

Kirby is awesome.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8804: Mar 10th 2022 at 7:49:17 PM

...Except that Moral Guardians is technically in the mainspace right now which means that for unexplained reasons it's a "trope", and since Periphery Hatedom isn't only much smaller but also literal Flame Bait I don't want to lump the two together.

Look, you keep bringing up Moral Guardians, but eventually you'll just need to bite the bullet and check some wicks for it or something, because bringing it up in every conversation is getting kind of exhausting.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#8805: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:09:55 PM

I mean, Periphery Demographic is Flame Bait, so complaining is expected, but then why does it even have on-page examples? Seems like everything that's made for kids would have people hate on it for that reason alone.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8806: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:12:15 PM

Like I said, I think actual concept is entirely objective, but people use it as an excuse to complain that people don't like things, or to make assumptions about why. It apparently launched as Flame Bait, which actually just feels kinda counterproductive...

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#8807: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:19:05 PM

It could also work as In-Universe Examples Only. There's definitely many cases of fictional characters hating "baby" shows and such.

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 10th 2022 at 11:19:22 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8808: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:21:51 PM

I definitely think a trope talk would be warranted here, if nothing else.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#8809: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:31:04 PM

I actually don't think it launched as Flame Bait. I don't think it launched at all, since it appears to have been created in the olden days of the wiki when anyone could just create a trope without TLP.

Unless the link was broken due to some glitch. I don't know.

[tup] to a Trope Talk thread BTW.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 10th 2022 at 11:32:18 AM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8810: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:32:21 PM

By launched, I mean "created" (like how we say Work Pages Are a Free Launch). I wasn't talking about the TLP at all.

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 10th 2022 at 11:32:57 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#8811: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:32:49 PM

Oh OK. Sorry about that, I was confused.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#8812: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:47:42 PM

Periphery Hatedom could have a new trope specifically about hatred towards preschool media (both in-universe and audience reaction).

Edited by Nen_desharu on Mar 10th 2022 at 11:48:06 AM

Kirby is awesome.
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#8813: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:49:07 PM

The alternative titles are incredibly whiny and accusatory.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8814: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:51:45 PM

I don't see a point in making a pre-school specific subtrope. That'd just make it even more of a toxic mess.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Wafer Troy Verde from the Banjo-Tooie world, meditating (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Troy Verde
#8815: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:53:41 PM

Maybe make it In-Universe Examples Only?

Guys how cool would it be if Super Megaforce had a green ranger...
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8816: Mar 10th 2022 at 8:54:42 PM

We'd need to check the examples and wicks to see if we even have in-universe ones. The TRS doesn't make things in-universe unless there's already a significant amount of usage to justify it.

And, this is seriously getting off topic for this thread. [lol]

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
QueenoftheCats Since: Feb, 2021
#8817: Mar 11th 2022 at 4:39:32 AM

I found an example on the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes page that's complainy:

Spotlight-Stealing Squad: In a total inversion of both the trope and sister series Wolverine and the X-Men (2009), top movie seller Iron Man is not the center of the action, and instead seems to exist purely to make mistakes that leave every other team member looking better. Interesting.

The bolded part sounds complainy to me. Should I simply cut the bolded part (I think the rest of the example could stand on its own) or rewrite the entry?

Afterword (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8818: Mar 11th 2022 at 5:20:01 AM

You can probably cut the whole thing, imo, since the first part's complaining about a completely different show

fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#8819: Mar 11th 2022 at 5:31:27 AM

I've gone ahead and removed the Turning Red example from Periphery Hatedom.

I have also created a Trope Talk thread on the topic here.

Edited by fragglelover on Mar 11th 2022 at 8:19:56 AM

Excelsior123 Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#8820: Mar 11th 2022 at 6:43:14 AM

You called? For the record, I've seen people unfairly complaining about Turning Red on Twitter, even being hostile towards the movie's crew. And yes, most of them are anime fans who hate western cartoons and the supposed CalArts style. One of them even unfairly compared it to Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. They also bashed Mei and her friends for their "cringe" antics, despite them being teenagers in the early 2000s. This seemed to fit the definition of periphery hatedom, complaining about shows/movies that are not meant for you.

And for the record, a white guy panned the movie just because it's about Chinese people and thus not relatable to him.

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/turning-red-cast-defends-film-racist-cinemablend-review-1235200056/

https://www.looper.com/771021/why-the-trailer-for-pixars-turning-red-has-twitter-in-an-uproar/

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#8821: Mar 11th 2022 at 7:09:40 AM

[up] We still shouldn't write entries that are filled with complaining, even if we don't agree with the content. Entries are supposed to be neutral after all.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Excelsior123 Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#8822: Mar 11th 2022 at 7:25:07 AM

I understand and I apologize.

Should I rewrite the example or should it not go on the page at all?

Something like "Turning Red is a movie about a Chinese girl, but one white reviewer panned the movie for not being relatable to him." I'm also open to suggestions if that's okay.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#8823: Mar 11th 2022 at 7:26:06 AM

[up]I don't know that one review is meaningful by YMMV standards.

My musician page
Excelsior123 Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#8825: Mar 11th 2022 at 11:07:44 AM

I haven't kept up with the backlash willingly but maybe something like this:

  • Turning Red is a Pixar film about a tween Chinese girl learning she can turn into a giant red panda as she comes of age (which is likely a metaphor for menstruation). It received ire from some adult fans, primarily white men, for not being "relatable" to them. A common complaint from this hatedom is that the main characters act too childish, but the movie's defenders, especially women and young people, argue that this is realistic for how kids that age behave.

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 11th 2022 at 2:08:02 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

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