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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8152: Jan 1st 2022 at 1:23:01 PM

It's not gushing, though? It's still negative, just negative against the fans.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
costanton11 Since: Mar, 2016
#8153: Jan 1st 2022 at 1:27:43 PM

Ok, I misread what the other poster said.

RustBeard Since: Sep, 2016
#8154: Jan 1st 2022 at 3:17:04 PM

I personally count tropers being defensive about a work as gushing. Maybe we need a separate thread for defensive troping or Complaining About People Not Liking the Show.

BigJimbo Since: Dec, 2017
#8155: Jan 1st 2022 at 11:34:49 PM

[up] Yeah, I remember at least two cases of "Shun the nonbeliever" in Awesome Music entries (both of which are now gone), so it seems like a good idea to me...

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8156: Jan 2nd 2022 at 9:52:29 PM

I found this entry for The Chris Carter Effect on YMMV.Battlestar Galactica 2003 as well as on the trope page itself. Be warned, it's long and complainy.

    Folderizing this because spoilers and it's long. 
  • The Chris Carter Effect:
    • The show was accused of this on several occasions — the effect can be traced back as far as Season 3, when the decision to largely abandon the show's carefully crafted Myth Arc in favor of a series of standalone episodes almost resulted in its cancellation (and eventual pushback from the producers to get the plot back on track). Still, the showrunners were open about the fact that they were mostly making things up as they went along. A series of open questions and mysteries were raised over the length of the show, and ended with handwaving and the revelation that God was responsible for many of the mysteries, and they may have been being literal in this. As a result of the series bible's publication after the show finished airing, fans now know that none of the plot points introduced in Season 3, such as the Final Five and Starbuck's death/resurrection, were things the producers were aware of at all during the first two seasons — they'd exhausted their stockpile of potential plotlines.
    • The "Final Five Cylons" debacle, which dominated the show since Season 3 began. Realizing that the gradual reveal of the promised "Twelve Cylon models" was boring, the writers broke their own established rules by making major recurring characters Cylons who logically couldn't be. One of them was married and had fathered a child; the cardinal rule about Cylons until then was that they're sterile. They handwaved it off by ham-fistedly retconning that his wife had an affair (after they dropped a bridge on her). To make it worse, they had already revealed that one of the Cylons was "Model Number Eight", and 8 + 5 = 13, not 12. They had to invent a backstory that there used to be a Number Seven model, but he got killed. The BSG writers didn't just apply "Magic A" Is "Magic A" to their work in the end; they fell back onto "divine intervention" to explain plot twists which, if you analyzed them objectively, didn't add up.
      • While the original series was sometimes viewed negatively by fans of the new show, most of the best-loved plot elements were re-imagined versions of original series episodes and plotlines. The show started meandering and falling apart precisely when the writers ran out of material and had to begin coming up with a metaplot of their own. Earlier ideas included "find Kobol, lost homeworld of humanity" or "what if another Battlestar survived?" (Pegasus), but by Season 3 they had run out of ideas.
    • The "Death of Starbuck" ruse: in the first two seasons, the writers often boasted that they respected the intelligence of their audience and didn't walk them through plot points. At the end of Season 3, with ratings dropping and the writers running out of ideas, they pretended to kill off Starbuck. Even in real life, the writers and cast were ordered to act like Katee Sackhoff left the show (Sackhoff was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and they did not know how long she will be gone for). The episode she was killed in bizarrely and obviously set up new plot points for her. She wasn't randomly shot or captured; she randomly flew into a storm due to a newly revealed religious plotline. It was confusing even then. Starbuck's "dramatic surprise return" was therefore predictable; writers who once said that they respected the audience's intelligence were now stooping to comic book deaths, though they insisted that this was a stroke of genius. All of this was supposedly related to Starbuck's "destiny", but they never fully explained (even in the finale) why Starbuck had to die and literally be resurrected by the Gods to lead the Fleet to Earth.
    • Made worse by the fact that the intro crawl text assures viewers that the Cylons "have a plan" which explains their seemingly bizarre and illogical actions. Ron Moore openly admitted after the finale, word for word, that David Eick had called him up on the phone and said "it will be a great way to hook viewers in Season 1 if we put 'the Cylons have a Plan' into the opening credits." Ron was hesitant at first, and actually said back into the phone "but there is no frakking Cylon Plan!" They had never sketched out the motivations, goals, or even full backstory and social structure of the Cylons. Word of God... there never was a "Cylon Plan", and they were lying the entire time. Eventually, the whole thing is hand-waved when a character says "plans change". After the show was canned, a TV movie called "The Plan" finally revealed the plan. It was a desperate attempt to retcon an explanation, which gave the simple answer "the Cylon Plan was Kill All Humans but it didn't work".
      • Ron Moore didn't even write "The Plan" prequel TV movie - he stuck Jane Espenson with writing it after the finale. At the red carpet for the finale screenings, he would even openly say ahead of time "if anything doesn't make sense, the prequel TV movie from the Cylon point of view will explain it after the finale airs". At the time, Espenson even thought Moore was honoring her with this big responsibility. Later on, however, Moore had absolutely no input into "the Plan" TV movie (the actual title is "The Plan"!), basically running out the door shouting "no backsies!" and leaving Espenson holding the bag, as it were. To her credit, Espenson put a lot of work into trying to make a presentable retcon explanation of the story - according to her, by sitting down and marathoning all the season DVD box sets and taking extensive notes - but fundamentally, Moore gave her an impossible task to literally retcon an explanation he never had in the first place.
    • There was also "the secret of the opera house", something that was being hinted at being something of great significance since season 1. In the finale, it takes up about 5 minutes to resolve, has little to do with any opera house at all, and is utterly pointless. It involves a 2 minute kidnapping of a character who was just rescued from a much longer and bigger kidnapping, and a cease fire between the Cylons and Humans that lasts all of two minutes before shit hits the fan, and the kidnapper is simply shot. So the whole plot ends with a kidnappee being rescued and the Cylons shooting at Galactica. Which is the exactly the situation before this all-important resolution of the opera house plotline. You could have fallen asleep during the resolution and you wouldn't have missed a thing.
      • The "opera house reveal" is actually one of the points that Ron D. Moore explicitly admitted he attempted to retcon an explanation for as he was writing the series finale. As he said, he knew they'd been hyping up these religious visions of the Kobol opera house since Season 1, so while writing the finale, decided the answer was that it was meant to represent the CIC during the final standoff (because it has tiered levels in it, vaguely like an opera house?) - it was simply an Ass Pull , but he was genuinely proud he thought of "an explanation", unashamed to admit that he made it up retroactively.

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#8157: Jan 2nd 2022 at 10:15:32 PM

[up] Definitely complainey, also serious natter and indentation problems, those third level bullets just to complain some more.

Also, I'm not even sure it's a good example of The Chris Carter Effect, which is where plot lines just keep going indefinitely without a hint of resolution. The BSG plots were wrapped up, people just universally hated them.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8159: Jan 3rd 2022 at 9:48:10 AM

I deleted the tree, but the whole YMMV.Battlestar Galactica 2003 page is pretty bad. For example, Esoteric Happy Ending:

  • Esoteric Happy Ending: The ending is both very religious (a large part involves a literal Deus ex Machina, though admittedly this part of it had been foreshadowed for most of the series) and very Ludd Was Right, both attributes which pissed off a rather large portion of the sci-fi fans who'd watched it, but actually made quite a bit religious watcher extremely happy (some even call it the best sci-fi show). It doesn't help that without their modern technology, most of the survivors would have both greatly shortened life expectancies and greatly reduced quality of life. A large number of fans found it rather unbelievable that the entire population of Galactica would consent to giving up all their technology without any apparent major objections. Romo even points out the impossibility that it could work, but somehow it still apparently does.
    • Or does it? No traces survive of the culture that they supposedly set out to build. Humanity would not reach a level of having things like agriculture or anything more than the most primitive tools for something like 140,000 years. The implication being that whatever non-technological society they attempted to create was an utter failure, with the entire culture dying out and the human race having to essentially develop everything from scratch over the course of a huge span of time.
      • Of course, it's a matter of interpretation as to just how much technology was actually forsaken. When Lee Adama first brings up the idea, his stated intention is to bring the good of his civilization to the new planet, without the baggage. While finalizing the plans for settling on the planet, Bill even states that the fleet's resources will be evenly distributed among the population before it's jettisoned entirely. The only technology explicitly abandoned by the crew were space travel and the ability to create more artificial intelligence; everything else could very well have made it onto the planet, even if it wasn't shown onscreen.
      • One wonders if the writers had any idea what they were saying when they tell us that the "fossilized remains of a young woman" were found: that Hera, for whom so much had been sacrificed, probably only lived long enough to have a couple of children, and quite possibly died in childbirth.

And Idiot Plot:

  • Idiot Plot: "Epiphanies" revolves around the idea that a significant faction in the fleet favors peace with the Cylons and hates Adama for being a warmonger unwilling to negotiate or acknowledge humanity's own crimes against the Cylons. This is a series where the Cylons, however justified their original grievances may have been, exterminated 99.9999% of the human species. Every single person on the fleet lost family and nearly all of their worldly possessions to the Cylon nuclear bombardment. The idea that a pro-Cylon faction could exist among this motley group of refugees completely defies belief. It's roughly equivalent to a pro-Nazi faction of Polish Jews sabotaging the Home Army and advocating for peace with the Nazis at the height of the Holocaust. On top of that, negotiation with the Cylons isn't even possible at this point because they shoot humans on sight, and are very open about this policy, making "why doesn't mean old Adama negotiate?" even more nonsensical. And in the Miniseries, it was noted that President Adar offered the Cylons a complete, unconditional surrender as soon as the bombs started falling on Caprica City, and they didn't even bother to respond.

Esoteric Happy Ending still applies, but not in that state.

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Jan 3rd 2022 at 12:48:22 PM

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#8160: Jan 3rd 2022 at 10:01:51 AM

[up] I've added the show to the complaining cleanup sandbox in my signature.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#8161: Jan 3rd 2022 at 10:42:29 AM

[up][up] In my opinion, Esoteric Happy Ending does apply, but a re-write would be in order. Also, all those sub-bullets need to gol Idiot Plot, as written, is just poorly disguised complaining and can go.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Unicorndance Logic Girl from Thames, N.Z. Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Logic Girl
#8162: Jan 3rd 2022 at 10:54:18 AM

Bold Inflation's description seems to be full of complaining.

For every low there is a high.
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8163: Jan 3rd 2022 at 11:19:02 AM

Alright, how about this:

  • Esoteric Happy Ending: After finding the planet to be known as Earth, Lee decides to send the entire fleet of ships into the Sun so that humanity can start with a clean slate and avoid the Vicious Cycle. Although intended as an explanation for why none of the Colonials technology has been discovered by modern day humans, it had unfortunate side-effect of carrying an accidental Ludd Was Right message. Without modern technology, most of the survivors would have greatly shortened life expectancies and greatly reduced quality of life, with the timeline indicating that humanity would not evolve into an agrarian society for another 140,000 years.

I took a bit from the entry on EsotericHappyEnding.Live Action TV (most of that entry just says that people disliked the ending rather than saying why).

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Jan 3rd 2022 at 2:19:32 PM

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#8164: Jan 3rd 2022 at 11:19:05 AM

[up][up] In all fairness, Bold Inflation is a serious problem on the wiki in some parts (Nightmare Fuel for instance) so I understand the complaining, but maybe it could be toned down a bit.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jan 3rd 2022 at 2:19:12 PM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#8165: Jan 3rd 2022 at 12:31:24 PM

[up][up] Looks good to me.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#8166: Jan 3rd 2022 at 1:26:23 PM

I do wonder whether it's worth mentioning in there, that Word of God indicates the whole thing was somewhat hastily tacked on to explain why none of the Colonials' technology survived into recorded history, because I've always felt that made the whole thing a good bit more confusing and bizarre.

Edit: I see that a bit's in there already, actually, but I'm wondering more about the part how it wasn't preplanned at all.

Edited by nrjxll on Jan 3rd 2022 at 3:27:29 AM

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#8167: Jan 3rd 2022 at 1:32:51 PM

Personally, I'm not a fan of edits which endeavor to "justify" certain plot developments. Yes, real life always shapes how certain shows end up, but at a certain point it sounds weirdly defensive.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#8168: Jan 3rd 2022 at 7:11:48 PM

@SatoshiBakura, is there any way to rewrite that with less spoiler tagging? I know it's not a strict rule that an entry shouldn't be 100% spoiler tagged, but isn't it discouraged where possible? Aside from that, the entry looks fine. I'm inclined to agree with [up] about sometimes the trivia information can come across as a bit defensive (as if it feels the entry isn't valid without the justification).

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 3rd 2022 at 3:14:49 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
harryhenry It's either real or it's a dream Since: Jan, 2012
It's either real or it's a dream
#8169: Jan 3rd 2022 at 8:02:53 PM

The Broken Base examples on YMMV.The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen really falls into bashing territory, and I think some of the examples (especially the last one about Mina) don't even count as a Broken Base, they're just complaining about the work directly. (And this is coming from someone who otherwise personally agrees with what it's saying)

     LOEG Broken Base 
  • Broken Base:
    • There's a question of whether Moore's really Truer to the Text than most other adaptations, or whether he's really just pushing for the darkest possible depictions for his private enjoyment. There is a lot of contention that Moore doesn't care about a lot of the characters textual qualities as long as it fits what he felt the book was about. In the worst cases these can have some of Moore's attempts at Surprisingly Realistic Outcome, such as Mina's scars, retroactively cause massive plotholes if assumed to be true in the source material. The divisiveness isn't helped by the fact that Moore is evidentially easily angered by how adaptations of his work alter his characters, which, given all the examples below, makes this look pretty hypocritical.
      • Particular sore spots include: Mina Murray being a divorced woman when she was Happily Married to Jonathan Harker in the original novel, Allan Quatermain becoming far worse of a hero and more of a loser than anything in the actual books, Captain Nemo working for the empire he spent his first book bad mouthing and wanting dead, Mr. Hyde raping the Invisible Man, James Bond as an incompetent misogynist psychopathic traitor instead of being a loyal, competent Professional Killer, and Harry Potter as a whiny, self-pitying, school-shooting chav strung out on anti-depressants who becomes the Antichrist, which is pretty far off from his actual character etc.
    • The Century trilogy is very divisive amongst readers, with some hailing it for its more experimental qualities, well-done characterization, and the many Awesome Moments that occur. Others slam due it due to Moore's attitude towards virtually all modern culture, the indulgence in thematic antiquarianism in a series that had once critiqued that kind of thinking, Orlando, a two-note character who seemingly exists only to provide Author Appeal and his mean-spirited treatment of modern franchise characters.
    • Moore's stance that art had higher expectations in the Victorian era compared to the modern stuff he's apathetic towards at best and utterly hates at worst is debated heavily by fans and academia. There are examples of many of the things Moore decries about modern fiction (Long Runner series, low-effort cash-grab sequels, fiction without higher themes intended purely for entertainment) in that time, much of which had to be rehabilitated via Death of the Author, or deliberately steering counter examples to be less focused on. Victorian authors were also no less prone to baiting their audiences, getting into feuds with critics, academics, and each other, or questioning their younger works as they got older and more thoughtful. Moore portrays all of which as worrying new trends and/or symptoms of something deeply diseased about the process of writing modern fiction. Some see this as Moore essentially siding with academic consensus, at least to the extent Moore can see himself as an intellectual for doing so. Moore's social anarchist cues may also play into this worldview. Others are more prone to call this as age old academic snobbery, arguing that Older Is Better and arbitrarily excluding older works from the same criteria used to judge modern ones. In the very process Moore seems to uphold obstacles to a wider literary acceptance, and which, ironically, has led to academia pushing away many of the fictional works used to build the comic's world in the first place.
    • How feminist is the character of Alan Moore's Mina Murray? This interview shows the thought process behind his decision to include her in his cast and doesn't exactly paint a good picture. Moore says that he wrote Mina into the series because they needed "a woman," and Irene Adler (whose name he apparently can't remember during the interview; he refers to her as "some genius woman in Sherlock Holmes") was "too obscure." He then says that Mina "dropped Jonathan" (whom he calls a "milk sop"), became a Suffragette (despite her canonically criticizing the "New Woman" in the novel), had romantic feelings for Dracula (someone whose only direct interaction with her in the book was coded as sexual assault), still feels guilty for Dracula's death, and is "obviously" getting intimately involved with Quartermaine. Defenders say that Moore's Mina is a strong female character and an active and important member of the cast—a veritable badass—while detractors say that the implication that Moore sees Mina being his token badass female character as incompatible with her being a loving wife in a mutually supportive romantic relationship with Jonathan is very uncomfortable, and that Moore revealed his true (distinctly non-feminist) feelings towards the matter in the very fact that he had to Retcon Mina's and Jonathan's canonically mutually devoted relationship to make Mina into the character he wanted and, further, by the fact that he claims that his version of Mina had romantic feelings for Dracula, her book-canon rapist-coded assaulter who imprisoned and tortured her husband and murdered her best friend, to the point where she regretted helping her husband and their friends kill him (which, in the book, they did mostly to save Mina and she was arguably their leader in this endeavor). All of this is, to use an overused phrase, extremely problematic.

Edited by harryhenry on Jan 4th 2022 at 5:03:42 AM

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8170: Jan 3rd 2022 at 8:10:33 PM

[up][up] This is the best I can without spoiling anything:

  • Esoteric Happy Ending: After the Colonials findi the planet to be known as Earth, Lee decides to send the entire fleet of ships into the Sun so that humanity can start with a clean slate and avoid the Vicious Cycle. Although intended as an explanation for why none of the Colonials' technology has been discovered by modern day humans, it had unfortunate side-effect of carrying an accidental Ludd Was Right message. Without modern technology, most of the survivors would have greatly shortened life expectancies and greatly reduced quality of life, with the timeline indicating that humanity would not evolve into an agrarian society for another 140,000 years.

Also, this on Trivia.Battlestar Galactica 2003:

  • Writing by the Seat of Your Pants: The writers' commentary on the DVD makes it clear that a lot of stuff was made up episode-by-episode. Especially irritating when every episode began with the statement "...and they have a plan" (until it was quietly dropped from the titles during the last season, and which Ron Moore confirmed in an interview had originally been added due to Executive Meddling anyway). Many viewers found this especially apparent in the plot points involving the identity of the Final Five Cylons. It really came back to bite them when they decided that the "Final Five" Cylons should be different than the others and have the last five model numbers. Trouble was, it had been built in the show from the start that there were twelve models, and they'd already given one of them the number eight. So the writers had to quickly insert a piece of backstory that another model had been judged so corrupted (read: wanting to be human) that all copies were destroyed permanently.
    • Another issue this caused was that Tyrol was made one of the Final Five despite having a son, due to the writers forgetting that Cylons couldn't have children. When they realized this halfway through the final season, it was quickly retconned that his son with Cally was actually the result of Cally having a panicked one night stand with Hot Dog the night before they began dating. And then the episode itself wasn't quite as clear as it could have been that this was what happened, leaving many fans with the impression that Cally (now long dead and unable to defend herself) had cheated on Tyrol. Also, keep in mind that Cally had never shared a scene with or even spoken to Hot Dog before in the entire series. In the DVD Commentary, Ron Moore flatly admits that he came up with this retcon simply because they'd built up Hera as the special Hybrid child so much that it wouldn't make sense to have two Hybrids - which was the entire criticism about making Tyrol a Cylon in the first place.
    • invoked As for the identities of the Final Five Cylons, Ron Moore's explanations in the DVD commentary make it clear that he picked them all based on shock value before in-universe story logic. That is, rather than describing "that suspicious thing Tyrol did in the Season 3 premiere was supposed to be a hint that he's a Cylon", Moore spent the DVD commentary of the Season 3 finale discussing that he picked these characters based on the shock it would cause - even though there was virtually no setup, with candidates ranging from the coincidental (Anders), the implausible (Tigh), to the nearly-impossible-without-hefty-amounts-of-Fridge Logic (Tyrol).

Starts out fine, but then quickly falls into rants about the Final Five subplot. Might try to rewrite it tomorrow, but if people have ideas, spit them out.

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Jan 3rd 2022 at 11:14:46 AM

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#8171: Jan 3rd 2022 at 9:58:04 PM

I don't know why that takes one entry with two sub-bullets to say the same thing: people were not fans of the Final Five reveal. I would suggest something like this:

  • Writing by the Seat of Your Pants: In its early seasons the show promised an intricate and mysterious backstory for the Cylons, as well as more mystery and intrigue for the Colonial fleet as they attempted to find the lost planet of Earth. The opening credits even teased "[The Cylons] have a plan ...". The writers would later admit what most fans suspected, that there was no such plan (the credits were mandated by the network) and that they had continuously written themselves into corners with less than graceful plotting (the infamous reveal of the Final Five among other things).

Edited by laserviking42 on Jan 3rd 2022 at 12:58:34 PM

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#8172: Jan 4th 2022 at 1:18:00 AM

[up][up] Heh. Fair enough. I think the full spoiler tagging is better than the swiss-cheesing, so perhaps don't worry about it?

[up] That rewrite looks fine to me.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
SpongeBat1 We stan Clippy in this house from Quittersville, Failuretown, and Loserburg (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: It's a god-awful small affair
We stan Clippy in this house
#8173: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:09:29 PM

Parody Assistance has this bit that feels unnecessary (especially considering people like Michael Salvatori and the X Men writers have guest starred post-controversy):

  • And once more in his review of Inspector Gadget Saves Christmas, where an animated segment with Penny near the end was voiced by Cree Summer, reprising her role from the series after so many years. Really shows how much clout Doug Walker used to have.

Came for the tropes, stayed for the cleanup.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#8174: Jan 4th 2022 at 12:27:51 PM

[up] Yeah that can go. I loathe the Critic, mind you, but entries have to be neutral on this site.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8175: Jan 4th 2022 at 1:29:31 PM

[up][up][up][up] Alright, you (or I) could put that on the page as well as on the Writing by the Seat of Your Pants page.

I'm going to admit that some of this is influenced by me actually liking the Final Five subplot that these pages seem to complain about, but that's not for here.

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Jan 4th 2022 at 4:29:42 AM


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