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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5176: Mar 18th 2021 at 7:28:06 PM

H. P. Lovecraft was added to Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining recently due to having a long section about Lovecraft's racist views. I don't know where to bring it up, here, the ROCEJ thread, or the Wall of Text thread, but the text about Lovecraft's racism could definitely be cut down quite a bit IMO.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 18th 2021 at 10:32:32 AM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#5177: Mar 18th 2021 at 8:08:18 PM

If it were condensed, the longer version could be moved to an Analysis subpage.

BigJimbo Since: Dec, 2017
#5178: Mar 19th 2021 at 10:05:29 AM

If you know your MGM films, is it any surprise that this entry in WellDoneSonGuy.Animated Films is such a mess?

  • The Secret of NIMH 2: Timmy to the Rescue: Done poorly. "So, Timmy, your dad was practically a living god. We just can't stop praising him and, since some random prophecy said you were going to be the hero of this movie, we WILL make you be just like him. No complaints. Questions?"
How should we rewite it?

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#5179: Mar 19th 2021 at 10:13:11 AM

It's practically a ZCE but I think the movie counts. From what little I know, you can rewrite it like:

The Secret of NIMH 2: Timmy to the Rescue: Timmy's late father is revered by the town, with everybody expecting Timmy to follow in his footsteps due to a prophecy. Timmy is initially reluctant, but trains for his entire childhood to honor the prophecy and his father's legacy.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
BigJimbo Since: Dec, 2017
#5180: Mar 19th 2021 at 10:21:58 AM

[up] Absolutely capital! Gonna change it right away.

Nouct over the front from an east coast Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
over the front
#5181: Mar 19th 2021 at 10:38:39 AM

Was recommended to come here from ATT to discuss how sdarkpaladin made several very recent edits to bash on Fate/Grand Order's localization of one character in the game's non-YMMV page (though I suppose they get faint credit from removing the edit later), the YMMV page to rewrite the Woolseyism example as if it were a Broken Base entry and added Broken Pedestal to complain about the game's localization (though mrbits did remove the non-YMMV trope). They also did the same to the Woolseyism entry's corresponding example on Video Games, adding a note about it causing a Broken Base.

Furthermore, it seems sdarkpaladin only comes into YMMV.Fate Grand Order to complain about game translation because looking further into the page's history, their edits on Nov. 25, 2019, Feb. 26, 2020, and Dec. 7, 2020 are all commenting on how the translation of this particular character wasn't good. This is all adding up to a pattern of Single-Issue Wonk to complain about the game's localization, no matter how many times the entries are removed as the majority of their Fate/Grand Order edits in the last three years have been to complain about them on the YMMV page with 7 complaining edits versus two non-complaining edits.

The most notable edits in this regard for some detail on the complaining nature of them.

    Folderizing it 
November 25 2019 (removed by Rebel Falcon)
***If the previous changes did not break the fanbase, the changes to Osakabehime did.

February 26 2020 (also removed by Rebel Falcon)

** The choice of localization for Osakabehime into weebspeak broke the fanbase with one side finding it endearing while the other side feeling that it destroyed her character. It doesn't make it better that as a Japanese, Osakabehime would not normally speak in weebspeak. The translation team also removed her character depth by choosing to ignore her prim and proper side.

  • However, there are translation liberty that the team took that split the fan base. Osakabehime's weebspeek being one, and the name Nite-Brite being the other.

  • Albert and the team, however, are responsible of certain liberties taken such as the changing of skin colour for Emiya Alter and the localized version of Osakabehime. See BrokenBase

  • Changes to Emiya Alter's skin colour is meant to prevent controversy with the public in America. Ironically, that caused a controversy within the fanbase instead.
  • Localization of Osakabehime changed her double facade, a prim and proper princess versus a hardcore otaku, and lump it into one facade, a weeb.

December 7 2020 (unedited probably because this was a minor edit that flew under the radar by tweaking a sentence, bolded words are the addition)

** In a truly inspired bit of work, Osakabehime's cringeworthy otaku slang is rendered in the English version as equally cringeworthy fangirl Japanese, doubly funny or cringe since the person using it is herself a Japanese youkai and probably would not have come across it naturally.

March 19 2021 (latest, Tropers/mrbits removed the first example for not being YMMV, the second is a major rewriting of the entry as a crosswick from its corresponding entry on Woolseyism, note that sdarkpaladin added the final sentence to the already existing entry about it being "a travesty". It should also be noted that they initially added it as a Broken Base entry on a non-YMMV page to again complain about the nature of the edits.)

* Broken Pedestal: Albert, one of the executive producer of the NA version of the game was lauded as the saviour who brought FGO to North America (and later other parts of the world). He has shown himself to be a huge Fate and FGO fan which endears him to the crowds. His pledge to follow the Japanese version strictly gave fan the confidence that the game will be ported over with as little change to the script as possible. However, from the second year onwards, the timing of events began to be swapped around and some banners are even not run. When Emiya Alter was released, the change to his art split the base into purists and people who accepted that it is necessary. The changes in Agartha, seemed to have mend the schism as Agartha was widely known to have problematic writing in Japanese. When Osakabehime was released, the changes to her character broke the base yet again. In an unrecorded Q&A session, Albert mentioned that he was the tiebreaker deciding between a more forthright translation and the current version. Many people were dismayed at the choice he made.

  • When Osakabehime was released in English, her dialogue was altered. In Japanese, she has multiple speech patterns to represent her multiple facades. A formal "princess-like" one, a typical Japanese Image Board Otaku Hikkikomori, and her real personality which is a mix of the other two. The writers instead had her randomly insert Gratuitous Japanese into her speech, or even combine Japanese and English words, such as "Gomena-sorry" or "Yamete kuda-stop!". The decision to do so broke the base in half with one side finding it endearing, while the other side finding it to be a travesty.

Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#5182: Mar 19th 2021 at 2:33:06 PM

I would like to respond regarding my additions to the YMMV.Thor Ragnarok page. I assure you, my intention was not to vandalize the page or cause any trouble.

Yes, I admit, I hate this crappy movie. Because it has a lot problems. Problems that I've seen many other people point out, and that I think deserve to be added to the YMMV page.

Believe me, I tried my best not to get too carried away by my hatred of this film, and to be as objective as possible and only cite problems which I've actually seen several other people complain about (trust me, my personal list of complaints is waaaay longer). It's possible that I did ultimately get carried away to some extent, and if so I apologize.

I recognize that some of my examples are pretty nitpicky, but I've seen plenty of other examples just as nitpicky if not moreso on other pages. In any case, this doesn't mean that the totality of my examples are invalid.

I can understand why some of my additions are being removed, but even with the best consideration, I still think quite a few of them should be on the page.

You can check anywhere on the internet, the facts that the characters make a lot of stupid decisions (such as Hela not using the Tesseract or Odin not taking any precautions regarding Hela's return), there are a lot of Retcon to the previous films (like the way Thor's powers work), the previously Badass characters become a bunch of ridiculous buffoons (especially Thor and Hulk), the dramatic events have little to no impact (especially the deaths of the Warriors Three) and the film wastes some of the plots set up in its predecessors (especially Loki ruling over Asgard) are things that are very frequently criticized about the film by many, not just by me. And I think few of the people who have seen the film, even its defenders, would argue that these complaints are not valid. So if you're telling me the movie doesn't qualify as Idiot Plot, Ass Pull, Angst? What Angst? or They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot, then please, I'd like to have an explanation.

BTW, I am familiar with The Worf Effect trope, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. When it's done badly, it makes the supposedly strong characters who are defeated look like incompetent wimps, hence the Badass Decay.

And FYI, I really did saw a fair number of people, including people who liked the movie, saying they'd wish the movie was its own thing rather than a follow-up to the other Thor films (albeit in their case, it's more of a case of Fanon Discontinuity for the first two movies).

PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#5183: Mar 19th 2021 at 2:52:50 PM

UsefulNotes.Nintendo Entertainment System has a big section highlighting every flaw the system has. I think it takes a little less than half the page.

     folderized here 
While the NES-001 is an iconic part of video game history, it's pretty badly designed. While the Japanese version (HVC-001) is a remarkably solid piece of engineering that often continues to work over 25 years later, the American release (handled by Nintendo of America) was rather sloppily redesigned to distance itself from pre-Crash consoles due to many vendors refusing to stock anything even remotely resembling the console, fearing that they wouldn't sell.

So what was wrong with the NES-001? Well...

  • NoA's industrial designers made the console look like a VCR, adopting a VCR-like front-loading cartridge due to a combination of wanting to make the system look as little like a game console as possible and a desire to avoid players in drier areas of the America from accidentally shocking themselves and possibly damaging the system (as the original top-loading Famicom had a direct connection between the cartridge slot— which could very easily be touched on accident because of how close to the outside edge it was— and motherboard, compared to the front-loader's more roundabout circuitry and less accessible connector pins in the cartridge slot. Due to expenses, a "zero insertion force" mechanism was used (put a cart in, fix it with a lever) but said mechanism ended up putting great force on the pins in both cart and connector, bending them slightly more with each insertion and shoving the ROM board back into the cartridge.
  • This was further compounded by using rather substandard materials for the connector and its frame, making it susceptible to bending. With each cartridge insertion, the cheaply-made pins and frame were bent more and more until no contact could be established. The fact that the pins were simple, ungilded copper and tarnished easily at exposure to moisture didn't help, and only intensified when NoA blamed dirty cartridges... which led to the classic tactic of blowing into the system and/or games, which actually just exacerbated the situation by throwing more moisture onto the pins from the water vapor carried in one's breath.
  • The infamous 10NES lockout chip, required for all NES cartridges. While intended to keep unlicensed games from being used, the fact that it required a constant connection meant that constant usage of the system made it block even the licensed titles (hence why the system occasionally resets once per second). The Famicom didn't have this problem because it had no lockout chip or any contact problems in the first place, all due to being a traditional top-loader.
  • Despite being given a slot with more pins than the original Famicom when the original pins for the co-processor is now connected to the 10NES, the extra pins ended being only for show and not really connected to anything, rendering it impossible to include co-processors on a cartridge, a function that is usually used to expand the audio capabilities of the original Famicom (as was the case with the Japanese version of Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse, which made use of a special mapper). note 
  • The removal of the Mic on controller 2 and removal of the DB15 peripheral port. This meant that the NES was incompatible with many hardware peripherals released for the Famicom, and added the burden of necessitating the swapping of Zapper and controller 2 should the player wish to play a Zapper game (the Japanese Zapper always connected to the DB15 expansion port. As a nice side effect, it is possible to use both controllers to control both ducks in two-duck mode in Duck Hunt). The removal of the mic also meant that several novel features in games (like defeating the Pols Voice monster in The Legend of Zelda I by screaming into the microphone proper) had to be changed for the American release.

This wasn't to say the Famicom also didn't suffer from it's own share of issues and design flaws:

  • The launch model of the Famicom had controllers with square buttons made of a very, very soft rubber not unlike cashier machines or the ZX Spectrum which deteriorated very quickly with use. It's not uncommon to find these models in the used markets with A button or two missing. Nintendo rectified this with the second revision which made the buttons hard plastic with a soft membrane underneath to make physical contact with the board which became industry standard to this day.
  • The controller cables length are infamously short at just under 2 foot in length. Extending them required opening the system, cutting the cables and soldering them up to extensions. Not an issue with how small on average Japanese homes and apartments are but are an issue for those wishing to import one. Third party controllers made by Hudson Soft, Hori and others offer longer cables and extras like turbo functions, but some games won't work with expansion port based controllers.
  • The system only launched with RF out to be widely compatible with TVs at the time ,but as years went by RF was quickly being replaced by RCA composite or RGB SCART, making the Famicom increasingly cumbersome to set up on more modern TVs and near impossible outside of Japan without extensive modding to add composite or RGB out, largely due to how the Japanese VHF frequency range is completely different from the stock NTSC VHF frequency range. It wouldn't be until a decade later and 6 years after the NES the Famicom would receive a redesign with RCA Composite out as the AV Famicom.
  • The Famicom Disk System is prone to failure overtime due to the soft rubber belt used to drive the mechanism rotting away or outright melting from heat generated by the system. Replacements are somewhat easy to come by but cleaning the old belt out of the clunky drive can be a long, arduous process.
  • Further compounding that issue is the Famicom Disk themselves have no protection for the magnetic film inside their casing outside of rare, special blue or gold disks (typically used for national contests and prizes such as US Golf or Famicom Grand Prix 2: Hot Rally 3D) which came with guards to protect it like you would see on a standard floppy disk. Because of this, standard disks are far more vulnerable to dust and sudden temperature changes than conventional 3.5" floppies. FDS games were shipped with thick plastic cases and a slip of wax based paper to store them, but it's not uncommon to find disks with the infamous Error: 22, which means its contents are damaged or forever lost.
  • Additionally, The Disk system is laughably easy to pirate. The format was based off the Mitsumi Quick Disk format with some custom software changes. The drive checks for a series of imprints inside the "NINTENDO" moulding pressed on each disk as the only form of protection which could be easily fooled with self made notches into store-bought disks with deliberate spelling mistakes to bypass any trademark issues. Because Quick Disks were also much shorter than FDS disks, it was also possible to simply buy a Quick Disk and attach a plastic frame with a few holes in the right areas and achieve the same effect. Bootlegs of earlier and some later made Famicom games converted to the FDS would start showing up on the market alongside unlicensed games, disk copiers allowing you to chain two Disk Systems together to copy disks from one to another with a blank disk, cables to copy games from a PC to the system's RAM adapter and even homebrew tools and hacks like "Tonkachi Mario" which was effectively the Ur-Example of console ROM hacking and predating the likes of Lunar Magic for Super Mario World by a decade! Later games added anti piracy routines to attempt to thwart this but ultimately failed to deter hackers and pirates until the FDS was discontinued in 1990 and games had become too big, complex or used additional hardware the FDS could not replicate or store. The effects of this would cause Nintendo to be cautious of non-cartridge media until the Nintendo Game Cube, and in hindsight is credited with promoting the company's infamously draconian approach to IP protection.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#5184: Mar 19th 2021 at 4:00:25 PM

I don't know if this counts as bashing, but I stumbled upon this Trolling Creator entry from Flower, Sun and Rain:

In true Suda51 fashion, this game is designed not so much to entertain you as it is to drive you up the wall. That's more than a typical Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers or Paper Mario player could handle.

The original entry did not have that second statement, and I feel like that second statement is pretty unnecessary and seems to be there just to throw shade at people who play the two mentioned games. Should I delete that last sentence?

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#5185: Mar 19th 2021 at 4:06:23 PM

That's kinda a Mean dig. Aren't both games quite well liked.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Primis Since: Nov, 2010
#5186: Mar 19th 2021 at 4:27:34 PM

What's even the point of that statement? The three games mentioned don't have anything in common; one's an RPG / Platformer, one's a Roguelike, and one's an Adventure Game. The Pokémon one wasn't even released in the same year as the other two.

Definitely cut it.

Edited by Primis on Mar 19th 2021 at 4:28:51 AM

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#5188: Mar 19th 2021 at 7:54:13 PM

[up]x6 The fact that the NES removed the mic the Famicom had isn't a big deal; the revised AV Famicom model doesn't have one, either. I doubt most Westerners knew the Famicom even had a mic before the Internet became easier to access; I certainly didn't. Also, I like how it says that it led to the removal of "several novel features" while only mentioning the removal of a single feature from The Legend of Zelda I.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 19th 2021 at 9:58:29 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#5189: Mar 19th 2021 at 8:02:24 PM

Plus it also lists problems with the Disk System add on despite not being related to the main system. Maybe that could’ve at least gone in its own section?

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
NoUsername she's only programmed to be very nice Since: May, 2012
she's only programmed to be very nice
#5190: Mar 19th 2021 at 9:07:25 PM

i would say as someone who's familiar with the differences between the famicom and the NES that most of that section can be trimmed down. these are basically the only two points i'd keep:

  • the NES doesn't have the capability for the same expansion chips (particularly audio-related) that the famicom does, leading to localized games that used these chips being downgraded in comparison (see Castlevania III and Mr. Gimmick)
  • the NES had anti-piracy measures that the famicom didn't, which led to occasional false positives, but also less rampant piracy than the famicom and especially the disk system

the rest (about hardware failures and such) is very nitpicky and trivial, and definitely should be removed. at this point a 35-year-old NES works about as well as a 35-year-old famicom.

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#5191: Mar 19th 2021 at 9:09:49 PM

[up]I'm fine with trimming it down to those.

I got a rock for Halloween.
Spidey Obsessively adds images to character pages. from Santa Destroy Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Obsessively adds images to character pages.
#5192: Mar 19th 2021 at 9:28:06 PM
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#5193: Mar 19th 2021 at 10:19:22 PM

Found this on Trivia.Rugrats under The Other Darrin:

  • Also, when Christine Cavanaugh — the original voice of Chuckie Finster — retired from voice acting and left the show during Season 8, she was replaced by Nancy Cartwright (from The Simpsons). Try as she might with the role, Cartwright's take on Chuckie made him sound like Ralph Wiggum, which didn't sit well with a lot of fans. Cavanaugh died in 2014, seven years before the Paramount+ reboot was announced.

What should we do about this?

Edited by gjjones on Mar 19th 2021 at 1:19:37 PM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#5194: Mar 19th 2021 at 10:26:21 PM

Change it to this:

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#5195: Mar 19th 2021 at 11:15:46 PM

[up]

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#5196: Mar 19th 2021 at 11:33:35 PM

All fixed up.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Tenebrika she/her (Less Newbie) Relationship Status: Not war
she/her
#5197: Mar 20th 2021 at 7:17:16 AM

I recognize that some of my examples are pretty nitpicky, but I've seen plenty of other examples just as nitpicky if not moreso on other pages.
That's a common misconception. Yes, the wiki has complain-y entries; no, they are not allowed, and this is why we have this thread.

Delibirda from Splatsville Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
#5198: Mar 20th 2021 at 8:20:21 AM

[up]Just cuz somebody does X does not mean we can.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”
nanakiro Since: Feb, 2011
#5199: Mar 20th 2021 at 1:25:37 PM

From the Hauled Before a Senate Subcommittee page (bolded the questionable part):

  • A late episode of Animaniacs has Slappy, Skippy, and the Warners present at a congressional event where Reef Blunt of the Federal Television Agency celebrates the infamous E/I laws — Slappy says "we're ruined", and the Warners declare it to be the "end of civilization as we know it". To twist the knife further, Blunt makes Slappy tone down the violence in favor of assembling a non-violent "problem solver" machine. When Skippy comes home with a black eye from the school bully, Slappy wants Skippy to simply use a mallet on him. Skippy points out if they do that, they'll simply "get dragged into another congressional hearing". (The entire episode was a Take That! at the FCC and the other idiots who implemented the E/I laws, as well as useless guidance counselors who think that talking to and tricking a foe can work wonders; it's only the liberal application of cartoon violence that stops the bully. When Blunt and the counselor complain, Slappy puts them into the problem-solver machine she'd spent all episode assembling — it makes all the violence happen off-screen.)

Edited by nanakiro on Mar 20th 2021 at 1:25:52 AM

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#5200: Mar 20th 2021 at 1:36:48 PM

[up]Complaining doesn't really get more blatant than that.

Edit: I intended to remove it when I originally posted this, but couldn't because the page was being edited. I removed the whole parenthetical statement because it's Parabombing.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 20th 2021 at 4:51:13 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.

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