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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

harryhenry It's either real or it's a dream Since: Jan, 2012
It's either real or it's a dream
#4501: Jan 8th 2021 at 12:15:58 AM

PurpleCandlelight has recently been spreading some Mabel-bashing onto Gravity Falls pages for a while, such as this one on Gravity Falls S2 E10 "Northwest Mansion Mystery":

  • Mabel also again uses her brother's dedication to making her happy to get things she wants at his expense. Mabel begs Dipper to accept a potentially dangerous job from a family they both know is corrupt and untrustworthy just so Mabel and her friends can get entry to the Northwests' fancy party. Dipper receives no benefit from the deal made in exchange for his labor, only Mabel; Mabel does none of the work, only Dipper. This is the exact kind of All Take and No Give situation Mabel was supposedly trying to be more self-aware of following "Sock Opera," but evidently she dropped the Aesop ball twice this episode.

There's also a problem of their examples on YMMV pages like YMMV.Gravity Falls S 2 E 19 Weirdmageddon Part 2 Escape From Reality (which I think are exempt from this thread since they're YMMV?) being ridiculously long, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

Edited by harryhenry on Jan 9th 2021 at 9:18:25 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#4502: Jan 8th 2021 at 12:24:44 AM

YMMV is absolutely allowed to be checked here, though if this is a constant problem with this troper, I recommend making a query reporting them on Ask The Tropers.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4503: Jan 8th 2021 at 12:51:58 AM

Why do people hate on a twelve year old girl so much? I watched almost all of Gravity Falls (the only episodes I missed were filler anyway) and never understood why people treat her like the devil.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas Since: Aug, 2020
Maintenance?
#4504: Jan 8th 2021 at 1:32:36 AM

I don't like the first line for this Head-in-the-Sand Management example:

  • An alarming number of examples to be found within the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender:
    • Long Feng, the Evil Chancellor of Ba-Sing-Se, has elements of this. While he's clearly aware of the war with the Fire Nation, he seems more interested in keeping it under wraps than actually doing anything about them, and he spends far more time scheming against the Avatar, the world's last realistic hope, than against his enemies. It's not a completely straight example, as he is quite active (and very ruthless) in enforcing his own power—he just doesn't want to jeopardize it.
    • The leadership of the Northern Water Tribe also falls under this, having spent 85 years of a 100-year world war doing absolutely nothing following an earlier skirmish with the Fire Nation. They only rouse themselves to fight off a second invasion of their fortress-city, and after that, they resume doing absolutely nothing for the rest of the series (contributing no forces to the last-chance invasion on the day of Black Sun, for example), although quite a few of them, including their greatest waterbender, were busy rebuilding the Southern Water Tribe. The second case is quite justified though, as said battle brought heavy losses on the Northern Water Tribe, putting them in no condition to fight an offensive war.
    • On a much smaller scale than the above, the leader of the village in "Avatar Day" seems more interested in executing the Avatar for crimes committed in a past life than in helping the Avatar save the world until Fire Nation soldiers arrive on his doorstep.
    • All in all, the reason the two Nations were losing the war became increasingly clear over the course of the series.
    • A Subverted example from "Return to Omashu" would be King Bumi who when Fire Nation troops attacked immediately surrendered and simply cackled about doing nothing, but subverted in that he was simply waiting for another moment to strike.
    • Also subverted with the Earth King. He was practicing Head In The Sand Management because he genuinely didn't know about the war (thanks to Long Feng). When he discovers it, he laments how long it took for him to act and immediately works with Aang to help coordinate an invasion plan.
    • The order of the White Lotus, a secret society dedicated to harmony between all three kingdoms, and including every Master of every discipline from the show, sat out the war until the literal last day. Although in keeping with the group's board game theming, a lot of that is justified by getting all of their pieces into place; in fact, their leader was directly involved with events from the very first episode.
I don't think there is much complaining in the examples, however.

I'm back!
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#4505: Jan 8th 2021 at 1:35:15 AM

[up] Just cut the opening line to the work and it's fine.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
MisterToodleoo Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
#4506: Jan 8th 2021 at 2:06:31 AM

While moving something from the Rescued Western Animation page of Keep Circulating the Tapes to the non-rescued page, I found this blurb about Coconut Fred's Fruit Salad Island on the former:

"(though, considering how poorly received it was, Bile Fascination or Guilty Pleasure might be the only reason to consider watching it)."

Edited by MisterToodleoo on Jan 8th 2021 at 3:06:51 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4507: Jan 8th 2021 at 3:15:34 AM

[up]Seems superfluous at best.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#4508: Jan 8th 2021 at 3:34:40 AM

[up]

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#4509: Jan 8th 2021 at 4:57:38 AM

Bile Fascination is YMMV and thus doesn't belong on Trivia pages like Keep Circulating the Tapes, and Guilty Pleasure is IUEO and thus can't be applied to real shows.

Either way, that's Parabombing.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 8th 2021 at 6:58:01 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#4510: Jan 8th 2021 at 5:48:24 AM

Because some adults forget that children can and do make stupid mistakes, and want to treat them like adults making these mistakes. They take these cartoons way too seriously and lose all perspective.

And no, I don't understand why people hate Mabel so much either.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#4511: Jan 8th 2021 at 10:19:36 AM

From YMMV.Yu Gi Oh:

  • Seasonal Rot: The fourth season, "Waking the Dragons" aka the Doma arc, is derided by some fans for consisting of a lengthy filler arc that Retcons the origins of Duel Monsters, has an insanely powerful villain who gets no comeuppance due to having been Brainwashed and Crazy the entire time, and has the only time Yami Yugi legitimately loses in the franchise aside from his final duel. Naturally, it is a frequent source of mockery in Yu-Gi-Oh! The Abridged Series.
    • As noted in this series of reviews however, all of these issues (With the exception of the terrible ending) where entirely absent from the Sub as the concept of Duel Monsters being solely tied to the Millenium Items was not a Retcon, but a Dub-Induced Plot Hole, the dub created further plot holes by removing lines that gave context to scenes and motivations, and the entire plot of the season was a continuation of themes and character growth that was... you guessed it, scrubbed out of the dub since Duelist Kingdom.

This second bullet kind of makes me suspicious, especially the "with the exception of the terrible ending" part. From what I remember it was a Retcon in the sub, too? I haven't watched the videos, though. What should I do about it?

Edited by Oshawott337 on Jan 8th 2021 at 11:22:20 AM

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#4512: Jan 8th 2021 at 11:22:58 AM

Delete the second bullet for being Natter.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4513: Jan 8th 2021 at 4:31:30 PM

Kill the second point. Violates indentation rules and is. Justifying edit anyway.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#4514: Jan 8th 2021 at 5:44:21 PM

Alright, it’s gone.

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#4515: Jan 8th 2021 at 9:04:55 PM

Re: Gravity Falls

Suspending Purple Candlelight.

Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#4516: Jan 9th 2021 at 9:37:45 AM

  • Seasonal Rot: As this series of reviews The fourth season, "Waking the Dragons" aka the Doma arc, is where the Dub Induced Plot Holes were at their absolute worst, creating false retcons such as "The Millenium Items were not the only source of magic in this series", something that had always been a fact in the japanese, as well as removing important lines of context or outright changing motivations (In the original, it was Yugi, not Rafael holding onto Black-and-White Morality, and his flaw was shown as his Pride rather than the dub's vague "You might have been evil at some point maybe". Crucially, character development and arcs that this series was meant to pay off had been edited out since Duelist Kingdom. Making this season feel like a punchline without a joke. While the original version is not perfect by any means (The ending is a let down to many, the protagonists learn the wrong lessons, it's full of conveniance ect, it still had some good themes and concepts that ended up poorly executed. The dub ended up scrubbing out ALL of this. Naturally, it is a frequent source of mockery in Yu-Gi-Oh! The Abridged Series.
    • It's following arc, Grand Prix was worse in both english AND the original japanese. Completely skippable (The other two filler arcs at least offered good character exploration), Joey is turned from a Badass into a total Butt-Monkey, the villain is derivative of other, better villains and the duels are mediocre at best.

So after I removed it citing natter so they simply re-edited it into the top part, then added another part. At bare minimum, the indentation is still bad and the grammar and spelling needs some help, too...

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4517: Jan 9th 2021 at 9:39:11 AM

Well that's an Edit War.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#4518: Jan 9th 2021 at 9:44:14 AM

Okay, I wasn't sure if adding it back in a different form counted or not. Time to send a notifier?

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#4519: Jan 9th 2021 at 9:44:17 AM

The troper that's edit warring is Giantleviathan.

You should probably DM them. Also, next time link to this thread as part of the edit reason.

Edited by Karxrida on Jan 9th 2021 at 9:44:30 AM

Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#4520: Jan 9th 2021 at 9:53:54 AM

Okay, I D Med them with a link to this thread. Yeah, it was my bad for not linking here in the first place.

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Giantleviathan Since: Apr, 2016
#4521: Jan 9th 2021 at 8:33:27 PM

Sorry. From the description last time, I thought the problem was that my entry was natter, so I tried to reword it so that it wasn't natter.

Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#4522: Jan 9th 2021 at 9:43:14 PM

It's all good, once again, it was my fault as well. Anyways, so are we in agreement to revert the entry? Though I think the KCGP entry can be kept with a bit of a rewrite.

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Giantleviathan Since: Apr, 2016
#4523: Jan 9th 2021 at 10:33:13 PM

I'm happy to rewrite it. I do think the part about the Doma Arc has merit, but needs a rewrite. What I was trying to get across is that while the arc was hated in the west, a lot of it's issues (Especially those mocked in the abridged series) were a case of rewrites by the dub as opposed to it being an entirely bad season all by itself. Basically, I was trying to give further context rather than start an argument.

Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#4524: Jan 9th 2021 at 11:42:08 PM

Alright. I think it could work with a rewrite. Though, admittedly, as much as I personally enjoy DOMA and as much as I prefer the original Japanese version of that arc, I'm not really sure if I agree with the assessment that all of the major issues people have with it were dub-only.

For instance, in terms of the arc retconning things, I think the complaint was less that it retconned the magic and more that it makes the lore of where the monsters originated from in the next arc a retcon by saying that they all existed 10,000 years ago and were there for an Atlantean war and the like while the next arc establishes Duel Monsters came from the Ka of people in Ancient Egypt due to the Millennium items. Which the anime writers had no way of knowing for sure at the time, but it contributes to people's complaints that DOMA feels out of place with the rest of the show and that they shouldn't have tried to make such vast attempts at worldbuilding in a filler arc.

As for the abridged series, I'm fairly certain LK was vocal about his hate of the arc in both versions. I noticed he often went out of his way to use plot points from the original and make fun of them instead. For instance, with the Three Musketeers backstories, he made fun of their original motivations to show he thought they were just as nonsensical when he could've easily just gone with their censored dub ones.

And I still see people who dislike Atem playing the Seal even in the original version. I think the dub could still be a valid complaint to bring up, but I don't think it was the main source of people's problems with it. Maybe just bring it up in a line or two at the end saying that some of the dub's changes didn't help people's opinions on it in the west, like by taking out some of the nuance in certain parts?

Edited by Oshawott337 on Jan 9th 2021 at 12:42:58 PM

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
MisterToodleoo Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
#4525: Jan 10th 2021 at 12:27:14 AM

Okay, I removed the Parabombing about Coconut Fred.

Now, I brought the following up before in this thread, but it went unnoticed: can someone please examine the Truck Driver's Gear Change page? It has some negativity, especially where the explanation of the page quote (not the quote itself) refers to “Seasons in the Sun” as “one of the worst offenders” (it’s since been edited to say the title of the song, but the negativity is still there).


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