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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

Spidey Obsessively adds images to character pages. from Santa Destroy Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Obsessively adds images to character pages.
#4476: Jan 5th 2021 at 1:07:14 PM

Someone recently added a They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot to YMMV.Paper Mario The Origami King, and at least to me, it just sounds complainy and maybe even misuse. Check it out:

    The entry in question 
  • They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot:
    • In concept, the game was practically given several perfect ways to compromise on or start phasing out the divisive-at-best “literal paper” angle. Since Olly, Olivia and his minions are actual paper or related to it, it could have been written only they are paper beings, while everyone else is flesh & bone bewitched by Olly and his Legion into paper a la the classic games’ curses, giving more credence to his beef with others and making the conflict a relatable “man vs paper”. In addition, as the Vellumentals are deities and the Earth Vellumental in particular is worshipped by the Koopas, their introduction could have been used to explain away the new literal paper angle and possibly even better connect the modern games to the classic ones. Unfortunately, as with the other modern Paper Mario games, the mainline characters are still also literal paper, essentially rendering the conflict as “paper vs paper” and cutting out potential depth or relatability.
    • While Olly’s solution to deal with the Toads crosses a line and is horrifying, the fact he as Big Bad and the brainwashed Peach are the only character to have a problem with them, combined with fan feedback on the overuse of Toads and how the game seems to bend backwards to make the Toads look good can make the effect fall flat. It also can lead to the argument of Olly being a strawman to make critics of the Toads look bad, whether the writers intended it or not. This could have been easily solved if a good guy (such as the not-brainwashed Luigi or Bobby) had also called out the Toads on bad behaviour earlier in the game and the Toads shown remorse for it, or if Bowsernote  had added a “Only I can be mean to the Toads” statement to the his speech prior to the final boss fight, a-la King Dedede in Kirby’s Epic Yarn. Either would have shown the good guys and regular series Big Bad can be annoyed at the species, the latter also rendering Bowser’s defense of the Toads more in-character, while also more clearly showing Olly’s outright extremism as not okay.

Thoughts on the entry?

Edited by Spidey on Jan 5th 2021 at 4:19:57 AM

"Unite GUN/BAZOOKA/LAUNCHER/TANK!"
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#4477: Jan 5th 2021 at 1:25:32 PM

[up]Both of them can go.

My musician page
Spidey Obsessively adds images to character pages. from Santa Destroy Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Obsessively adds images to character pages.
#4478: Jan 5th 2021 at 1:26:33 PM
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4479: Jan 5th 2021 at 1:42:10 PM

DorkAge.Western Animation: You could win a game of "cartoon complaining bingo" with this entry. I'm not even sure if it's correctly using Dork Age.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#4480: Jan 5th 2021 at 2:05:46 PM

[up] I feel that entry violates the "examples are not general" rule we have. Dork Age is supposed to be for franchises, and not specific elements of works.

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
DarkChirano Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#4482: Jan 5th 2021 at 4:08:31 PM

Spidey, I was the one who put the two recently deleted ymmvs on the Origami King. I believe it was a mistake to delete those entries, more specifically the second one.

First off, I believe there is no misuse at at in play. Looking at the laconic entry for wasting a perfectly good plot, it says its when a plot point is brought up or potential is there, yet not used. The criteria is met for both of them, as the game does bring both up- therefore, it can and should be held accountable to the standards it itself has set up.

For the former, as the entry explains, Olly and others are legit made of paper. In light of how divisive the overuse of paper comments is, it is more than fair to come to the conclusion the issue could have been resolved only he and Olivia should have been regarded in-game as actual paper, while also giving Olly’s conflict more of an actual angle. The Vellumental praying example, involving the paper gods the game itself introduces and how they’re worshipped, also gives a case of not using new storytelling opportunities to address a longstanding issue, and builds upon points to further explain how this existing plot point is underdeveloped and not touched upon, which is what a good example should do. The one phrase that even sounds like a complaint is only there as a part of explaining this story beat, and authors do sometimes use new plot points to explain away past poor ideas for a positive result, which this plot point could have done. Heck- the Vellumental example didn’t have a single negative word, yet that got swept up too instead of just leaving it and deleting everything else if there was a serious problem.

The latter, meanwhile, and the one I really want to defend...the game itself keeps propping up the Toads as some indisputable beacon that can do no wrong, yet no-one besides Olly ever calls out the Toads or administers some lesser punishment to on anything. I didn’t go into this next part in the entry, but the game bends backwards quite a bit to absolve the Toads of any blame, such as having the cut wood be happy to be burned, making Grandsappy look wrong for calling them out. In addition, something the entry does touch on, Bowser is way too defensive of the Toads, despite them doing bad things to his troops that weren’t even their fault in this game, so it makes zero sense he has absolutely no anger with them at all. The entry even has a little bit acknowledging the writers may not have thought this through, but it’s still not good and can be interpreted as such by the audience, which is a very level and not-complainy thing to say.

In other words, the entry is based on a plot point the game itself brings up (characters having issues with Toads), going point-by-point to explain the problem (only the main bad guy has a problem with the Toads, his solution is way over-the-top, and no good guys calling out the Toads without some catch like brainwashing, making it easy to see Olly’s motive as a strawman, which people of both sides across the web have noticed), and ways that plot point could have been better addressed were even included (legit good guys calling out the Toads and having it stick/not be undone, or having the series villain mention some grievances before defending the Toads). Therefore, it was wrong and not justified to outright remove that example, as it met the words and spirit of all the rules. If there was an outright complainy part, you guys could have talked it out, bolded some problem parts like with other disputed examples, simply edit those parts out, and put it back in. Not skip that part altogether.

Edited by DarkChirano on Jan 7th 2021 at 3:00:33 AM

Nothin' much, just cookin'.
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#4483: Jan 5th 2021 at 4:35:17 PM

[up] Your first sentence is a non sequitur. Were you the one who posted those those entries?

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#4484: Jan 5th 2021 at 4:38:24 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] That entry is ridiculously complain-y and also speculative and weasel word-y ("some have wondered if Theme Tunes in Western Animation are dying off and whether or not it will ever recover going into The New '20s.") Torch it.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
DarkChirano Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#4485: Jan 5th 2021 at 4:42:18 PM

[up][up] Yes, I was. I have fixed the message to make it more clear.

Edited by DarkChirano on Jan 5th 2021 at 4:42:33 AM

Nothin' much, just cookin'.
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#4486: Jan 5th 2021 at 7:14:46 PM

[up]x14

Milky Way Wishes is actually a subgame in Kirby Super Star.

Kirby is awesome.
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#4487: Jan 5th 2021 at 7:21:30 PM

If your post arrows exceed 5 and fold over to another pages you should probably either quote or link the post you're responding to.

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#4488: Jan 5th 2021 at 7:26:26 PM

[up] God I am glad I am not alone in feeling this way!

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4489: Jan 5th 2021 at 7:31:40 PM

Here's the post, BTW. The specifics of what Milky Way Wishes is don't really make the example any more or less complainy.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4490: Jan 6th 2021 at 7:06:22 PM

Could this paragraph on Even Stevens be reworded to be less derisive towards later Disney Channel shows? The "quirky gimmick" section is both complainy and vaguely defined (one could say that Good Luck Charlie does kind of have a gimmick in how it relies on Charlie's baby cuteness).

This would be the last "old school" Disney Channel original series (as in, a show without a Teen Idol as a lead character), before the paradigm shifter Lizzie McGuire premiered in 2001. It remained the last show produced solely by the channel note  without a quirky "gimmick" as part of the premise until Good Luck Charlie premiered ten years later.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#4491: Jan 6th 2021 at 7:55:58 PM

I hope no one minds me asking, but do these edits to Caillou come off as complaining?

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#4492: Jan 6th 2021 at 8:05:51 PM

[up] Yes, very. The complaining can be removed.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#4493: Jan 6th 2021 at 8:32:26 PM

The same person who added that also added Calliou as The Scrappy, despite the fact the hatedom he has is a Periphery Hatedom.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#4494: Jan 6th 2021 at 11:19:19 PM

From Another Life (2019), is the last sentence, which I've bolded, necessary?:

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#4495: Jan 6th 2021 at 11:21:42 PM

Not at all. Snip it.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4496: Jan 7th 2021 at 1:58:01 PM

On Shrek 2:

Since it relies entirely on gags from a montage very early in the movie, I highly doubt this counts. Most people don't see Shrek and Fiona as bad guys.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
SMILE!
#4497: Jan 7th 2021 at 1:59:09 PM

[up] Yeah, all of that is Played for Laughs, and isn’t important to the overall narrative. I agree on cutting it.

Edited by jandn2014 on Jan 7th 2021 at 4:59:56 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4498: Jan 7th 2021 at 2:32:06 PM

[up][up]Cut it. It's just some jokes in the beginning. Their straight heroes after that.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4499: Jan 7th 2021 at 3:36:16 PM

DorkAge.Television Networks: Focusing on the first bullet of the Disney Channel example because I have more reservations about it.

Doesn't a Dork Age have to be a commercial and critical failure? Hannah Montana and many of its other similar shows were extremely successful with their target audiences, IIRC. Did it not do well early on? Also, it claims many of these shows are "exempt from the Dork Age" when they're describing the most prominent shows that brought a ton of success to the network. I think this is more just standard Network Decay.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jan 7th 2021 at 6:40:44 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#4500: Jan 7th 2021 at 4:37:00 PM

[up] Agreed.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢

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