German Politics Thread

Unfortunately, far-right politicians are dangerous even when they're not in charge. When the regular right adopts their idea and others start to answer their talking points, they've already done a lot of damage.

They are. But I also think that their rise isn't exactly natural. It's carefully engineered.

You know, everyone was laughing when Merkel said that the Internet is "Neuland" for all of us, but it turns out that she was completely right.

I've always thought that a weird way of looking at it. There's nothing new about the rise of a barely regulated at all medium of information exchange because the tech is new or developing fast.

We've definitely seen this and its effects before in Europe. It's called "the printing press + cheap, relatively durable(ish) pulp + better (and cheaper) inking techniques + improving transportation = unregulated pamphelts and round robins spreading all over". The C16th to C19th can be summed up as "learning how to live with this press thing and hopefully not get a revolution every time somebody thinks they've got a clever idea".

Now it's — "How many things did we start regulating and what did we supply our populations with (such as education and basic rights) to tame the impact of wild pamphleteers, again?". But, this time, it's digital.

And, yes: society has to make a lot of changes to adapt.

But, this isn't new. It's faster, but it's not new.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Nov 14th 2018 at 12:37:21 PM

It is like a complete section you have to regulate.

Case to point: The money Alice Weidel used to funnel into the campaign for the Af D? Apparently part of it was used to pay a lawyer whose job was to attack journalists, another part was used to buy likes (and there is still money unaccounted for).

Currently nobody pays a lot of attention to it, but how fits buying likes (and I assume paying trolls) into the rules we usually have for campaigning? This is something which shouldn't be allowed. But there is no legislation whatsoever for things like it. Nor are there any rules for a second campaign pushing talking points in order to help out an official party.

This is a HUGE issue. We need to protect our elections.

That was my point?

The printing press also gave us paper money in amounts which could be easily used and exchanged, but it also gave us backyard counterfeit operations and under-the-table shenanigans which had to be countered by regulations, laws, policing, methods of accountancy and upping the security measures on how to print, distribute and exchange money better and in ways far harder to duplicate or fool. Also, wider education in how to spot counterfeits and fraud.

Ditto voting: counterfeit voting slips in counterfeit boxes. Or real votes in real boxes paid for with counterfeit means and counterfeit news.

It's really not new. Any of this.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Nov 14th 2018 at 1:02:00 PM

It is new in the sense that this is a new area we have to deal with. Just because new things happen all the time it doesn't mean that those new things are still new. And the internet is on a different level than, let's say, the Fax machine.

What would a far-right government in Belgium even look like? Belgium isn't really a nation-state so I'm not sure what a Belgian nationalist government would look like. Would Flemish and Wallon nationalists be able to set aside their differences and unite in xenophobia of non-western influences?

Edited by DrDougsh on Nov 14th 2018 at 6:21:01 AM

A double-far-right Belgian government would be an alliance for partition, and probably collapse over who got Brussels.

More likely is the Flemish side voting for VB, leading to a government formation crisis like in 2010.

Well, for once a little bit of good news regarding the ongoing fight against the far right:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/14/marching-together-far-right-fascist-wir-fur-deutschland

Go Berlin!!!!

Looks like the whole Finance affair regarding Alice Weidel really takes off now.

Couldn't have happened to a less sympathetic politician.

Wait, is she that AfD leader who's being investigated for shady campaign finance?

Yep...it's kind of amusing because they can now take apart the finances of the Af D and look into not only where they get money from but also how it was used.

I am really wondering about the legality of buying face book likes or using election campaign contributions from questionable sources to pay off lawyers...

You know, I have looked a little bit more into the concept of buying likes. I just wanted to know if there is a rule against during it for election campaigns. And you know what: apparently it doesn't matter. Because doing so is at best Unfair business practices, at worst it can be considered a fraud (so it is basically a criminal act anyway). It will be interesting to see how this particular aspect of the illegal donation affair plays out.

Frankly, manipulating the media (old or new) to suit your viewpoints is old hat - been done for a long time. It's just more visible now - and people don't like it.

Still, I have hopes that Weidel gets her ass handed to her by the Courts for that financing thing. Pretty sure at least some of that monetary help for the AfD and her lawyers was Russian backed. Seen that happen back home too - mostly useless, I might add. Still dangerous though.

People have stolen since the beginning of time. That doesn't make it legal or something elected officials should partake in.

So...is it just me or is Merz losing traction? The idea that you are "Mittelstand" if you own two planes has nearly become a meme at this point and I don't think that his recent attack on our constitution really endeared him to anyone.

ZDF Poll hast him loosing points, he's now 2nd after AKK (who holds more than Merz and Spahn together)

His trying to 'open a debate's on the Right for Asylum also seems to have hurt him a lot.

Which is good <.< Fucker tried to appeal to the right wing and got burned for it.

Edit: oh the poll has details:

AKK Vs Meet on

Credibility 30 to 16%

Sympathy 34 to 15%

Represents the Interests of the normal people? 33 to 9%

Get rekt Merz.

Edited by 3of4 on Nov 23rd 2018 at 12:04:59 PM

I think all the reminders who Merz actually is helped too. Question is what the undecided will do.

AKK has a Poll of 38% for her, I think barring some major fuckups she's gonna go the Distance.

I think many CDU member are very impressed by AK Ks' resolve. She vowed that she would end her political career if she should lose, and many believe that she will stick to that.

AKK has balls of steel when push comes to shove, just ask the Saarland FDP...

Well, there is also the little fact that she actually managed to get more votes in her Bundesland when most of the CDU was in a downward traction, that she has years of experience and that she comes off as "bodenständig". She is too conservative for my taste in a number of matters but at least I can trust that she will stick to her values. I wouldn't be able to say the same about the other two.

It also helps that she signals that Merkel's protegee or not, she intends to peruse her own style.

Least evil of the 3...

Yes, I know. But I guess that's as good as it gets from the current CDU. And considering that there is a good chance that whoever gets the job will be our future chancellor (unless the greens gain even more), I rather take the kind of workable option over the free-market crazies with questionable business ties.

Btw, I was right that it was quite brilliant by Merkel to make Spahn Health minister. A few months of him talking about "efficiency" in the healthcare Systeme, and his popularity has suffered considerably.

Edited by Swanpride on Nov 23rd 2018 at 3:56:31 AM

My guess is Black-Green on the Federal, even if the CSU is screaming