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French Presidential Election

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MarkThis Since: Jan, 2012
#76: May 6th 2012 at 2:21:39 PM

It would be funny if the second cohabitation government is PS president, UMP ministers.

It would be even funnier if it were Front de Gauche instead of UMP that got a majority. Le contraire, ce serait bourgeois

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#77: May 6th 2012 at 2:39:48 PM

[up]We already had such a cohabitation.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Catel Since: Apr, 2010
#78: May 6th 2012 at 2:54:02 PM

The communist elected representatives exist only on what the Socialist party grants them. Actually there's pretty nothing left more in the Communist party than a bunch of deputés, maires and sénateurs.

purplefishman Misanthrope Supreme from Ganzir Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Misanthrope Supreme
#79: May 7th 2012 at 11:08:00 PM

[up][up]Twice, even. First time in 1986 (Mitterrand as the president, Jacques Chirac as the prime minister), second time in 1993 (again Mitterrand as the president, and François Balladur as the prime minister).

MarkThis Since: Jan, 2012
#80: May 8th 2012 at 1:25:01 AM

What happend? The french communist party used to be so powerful. They had a really huge, cool building, too.

Jhiday (Don’t ask)
#81: May 8th 2012 at 1:44:39 AM

The French Communist Party lost a lot of its appeal when they joined the government way back in 1981 ; at that point, they became "just another political party", with slightly more radical left leanings (but not enough weight to really implement those kinds of policies). From that point on, they've been in steady decline.

This is why other extreme-left parties (such as LCR/NPA or Lutte Ouvrière) have risen to fill the void left by the PCF, with some degree of success until this year. Mélenchon's big achievement here was to gather back most of this extreme-left vote onto his name... but that only works for the presidential election ; the legislative election system means that the PCF/FdG must compromise with the PS to get some of its members elected.

[edit] And they still own that building, although it costs them an arm and a leg to keep.

edited 8th May '12 1:46:49 AM by Jhiday

MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#82: May 8th 2012 at 2:04:38 AM

[up] How exactly do the legislative elections work? Do you have a district system or something?

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
Jhiday (Don’t ask)
#83: May 8th 2012 at 4:26:09 AM

France has two legislative bodies : the National Assembly (577 députies) and the Senate (343 senators).

Nobody cares about the Senate, because its election system is quite complicated (it's not the ordinary citizens that vote, only half of it is elected at a time, etc.), and whenever they disagree it's the National Assembly that has the last word. (For what it's worth, the Left controls the Senate by a hair since last year, for the first time since the last regime change in 1958.)

The legislative elections are for the National Assembly. It's a pure district system : in each of the 577 districts, a deputy (and their backup) is elected in two rounds. This mostly favours the big parties (UMP & PS), which is why smaller parties such as EELV (the Green) have settled with them to get some districts of their own.

It's slightly more complicated, though, because the second round is open not only to the leading two candidates, but also to whoever gathers 12.5% of the registered voters (which may be quite a higher proportion of the vote in places, depending on the participation rate). This is what the FN is hoping to do in 100+ districts, thus destroying the chances of most of the UMP candidates there.

It's a bit difficult to predict the results, as the district map has been remodelled in the last few years to account for demographic evolutions and create 11 districts for the French living abroad. Even then, even the UMP guy who was in charge of this remodelling (and thus had every chance to nudge it a bit in favour his own party) isn't very optimistic.

edited 8th May '12 5:17:46 AM by Jhiday

MarkThis Since: Jan, 2012
#84: May 8th 2012 at 4:33:43 AM

The FN is really becoming too mainstream.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
MarkThis Since: Jan, 2012
#86: May 8th 2012 at 5:13:54 PM

I wasn't joking, though, even if I phrased it that way.

purplefishman Misanthrope Supreme from Ganzir Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Misanthrope Supreme
#87: May 9th 2012 at 10:02:21 AM

No need to justify. It REALLY is becoming way too mainstream.

And believe me, I'm trying to be as calm sounding as I can here. My opinions on the matter are usually... Much more vocal.

edited 9th May '12 10:03:01 AM by purplefishman

MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#88: May 9th 2012 at 2:32:17 PM

France has two legislative bodies : the National Assembly (577 députies) and the Senate (343 senators).

Nobody cares about the Senate, because its election system is quite complicated (it's not the ordinary citizens that vote, only half of it is elected at a time, etc.), and whenever they disagree it's the National Assembly that has the last word. (For what it's worth, the Left controls the Senate by a hair since last year, for the first time since the last regime change in 1958.)

The legislative elections are for the National Assembly. It's a pure district system : in each of the 577 districts, a deputy (and their backup) is elected in two rounds. This mostly favours the big parties (UMP & PS), which is why smaller parties such as EELV (the Green) have settled with them to get some districts of their own.

It's slightly more complicated, though, because the second round is open not only to the leading two candidates, but also to whoever gathers 12.5% of the registered voters (which may be quite a higher proportion of the vote in places, depending on the participation rate).

Now that's so complicated it's just silly. Sounds like it was designed by the same people who came up with the German electoral system (which I still can't wrap my mind around).

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#89: May 9th 2012 at 5:02:12 PM

[up] Many Germans have trouble to completely understand it too. Of course the German electoral system is intentionally complicated and thus limitating the power of the government(the government has to get along with the opposition most of the time or they wouldn't be able to pass laws).

Jhiday (Don’t ask)
#90: May 10th 2012 at 1:57:46 AM

The French election systems can be pretty complex, yeah. And it's not really heading towards simplification :

  • Sarkozy planned a half-fusion of the "cantonal" and "regional" elections (for the ruling bodies of the 101 departments and 27 regions, respectively). It was supposed to simplify things (basically, the same people would be elected for both the departments and regions), but it's such a mess that few people at the local level liked it, and Hollande has already promised to cancel this reform before it's ever used.
  • For decades now, there's been some talk to have about 10% of the seats at the National Assembly elected proportionally to the global vote, allowing for a token presence of small parties. It may finally come to pass with Hollande, although I wouldn't hold my breath over it. It certainly wouldn't be making the system any simpler.

But then, at least it's not as stupid as our implementation of the European election system. France gets 74 seats, elected proportionally. But that would be way too fair to small parties, so someone decided to divide the country into 8 "districts", meaning that one must get a very high score in any of those (at least 8%, at best) to get any seat.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#91: May 10th 2012 at 2:05:54 AM

That said, the US presidential election sounds just as complex to us.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#92: May 10th 2012 at 2:57:49 AM

Well, I think the American electoral system is fairly simple. Horrible, but simple.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#93: May 10th 2012 at 3:00:40 AM

[up]

From the outside, it appears rather complicated.

Delft? As in the Pottery?

Keep Rolling On
MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#94: May 10th 2012 at 3:34:03 AM

[up] Yeah, the "Delftware" stuff. Not that anyone cares about it here; it's just kitsch we sell to tourists.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#95: May 10th 2012 at 4:42:27 AM

Personally, I was thinking of the old stuff — items you'd find on the Antiques Roadshow.

—-

Back to the Topic in Hand, methinks.

edited 10th May '12 4:43:09 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#96: May 10th 2012 at 5:46:19 AM

The complication that comes with the American system comes at the Electoral College stage and the fact that there's one of two ways to apportion votes. (Theoretically, I suppose we could have more, but the methods we have make sense at the beauracratic level.) It's either Winner Takes All or Proportional "give what they actually got in each district", and the state governments can essentially change whenever they want. (Which some months ago caused a good deal of anger because they were trying to essentially change how the votes got apportioned out in two different states, both of them essentially to the opposite one they were currently using.)

That said, the French system seems hideously more complicated, given how you choose that one body of Congress. I'm also not sure I get the point of two round voting. I don't think most people here would care enough to vote a second time.

MarkThis Since: Jan, 2012
#97: May 11th 2012 at 2:32:10 PM

At least this campaign will have brought forth something wonderful. Sarkozy's Trollcadero.

C'EST LE SAAAAAAARKO DE LA VIEEEEEEE, UN CYCLE INFERNA-AL! CHUIS CONTENT QUE CE SOIT FINI!...

CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#98: May 12th 2012 at 3:05:54 PM

Melenchon is going up against Le Pen in the parliamentary elections.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
purplefishman Misanthrope Supreme from Ganzir Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Misanthrope Supreme
#99: May 13th 2012 at 2:13:56 PM

... I dunno about that. Sure, somebody must oppose her... But there's already a socialist candidate there, and it feels a bit like misplaced pride ("If I can't beat her on national elections, I'll beat her on local ones !").

CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#100: Jun 10th 2012 at 2:18:19 PM

First round of legislative elections set to give Hollande 35% - up to about 40% when you add his Green Party allies into the mix. A lefty majority is likely, meaning it's going to be easier for Hollande's big reforms to get through. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18388273

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

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