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tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#226: Nov 17th 2013 at 3:46:24 PM

Two things.

First, when this Edit War erupted before the mod ruling is based on Word of God at the time Miir or Meer were both acceptable. Here's what I said before on the matter.

The show's wiki lists her as Miia. So does Manga Park. If you look here the name change is brought up. As it is here. So we have conflicting spelling of the name, based on a poster that in universe might be wrong. Is Meer spoken in the manga at all?

Now has the writer himself said what the English spelling is? Has a translator come out and is willing to swear blind what the proper name is? What about babelfish, has someone paid them to have the kanji translated to English?

The second point is does the fact all available sources not have the spelling you want honestly keep you up at night? If it were a case of someone saying Meer is voiced by Kim Mai Guest when obviously it's Miir voiced by Laura Bailey that would be a different story. But this? This is like being upset that Danni Daniels is never the submissive partner. I understand the need to have a pet page read exactly the way you want it to but to the best of anyone's knowledge the official spelling has not been shown, and sources for such an official stance on both sides have been rejected. If you're really that passionate about how someone's name is spelled, can you do me a favor? Is it Mark Calaway or Mark Callaway? Is it really that big a deal? Enough to have to edit every instance of the name being wrong? Especially when last I checked there was not an official stance on which way it is spelled.

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
KentuckyTroper1990 from Take a wild guess... Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#227: Nov 17th 2013 at 3:54:42 PM

There has been no official statement. Just a picture before a chapter that said "Meer". And Marq has taken that as Word of God confirmation on the spelling.

ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#228: Nov 17th 2013 at 4:00:24 PM

Christ not this again.

The fans call her Miia.

The officials call her Miia.

Miia is a reference to her species, just like the other girls.

Her name is Miia. "Meer" popping up like that once could pretty obviously just be a romanization mistake by the author, something that is VERY common.

You are not alone.
KentuckyTroper1990 from Take a wild guess... Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#229: Nov 17th 2013 at 4:11:59 PM

If we could get some kind of official word on that(Like from a Mod or something) we could finally put this to rest.

tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#230: Nov 17th 2013 at 4:23:56 PM

On January 17th 2013 lu127 said this.

Alright, looking at the raws, it appears the names are as good as an official source we could get.

While I can see Miia or Suu wouldn't immediately make you think "oh, it's Meer and Sue", there's no excuse for "Centoria" when Centaur is spelled the way it is. It seems like a sloppy translation.

Now, my opinion is that since we have an actual cover to go on, we should stick to the cover and add a note. But it really isn't that important, so there's no reason to make a fuss if somebody writes "Miia" or whatever when a chapter comes out. Other pages have problems with inconsistency too, but it's not the end of the world.

Now has there been some new information on this? Or if the mod ruling is rejected like the sources were last time do we want to ask Fast Eddie for an official ruling? Will what the site owner say be good enough for those disputing the spelling?

edited 17th Nov '13 4:24:55 PM by tsstevens

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
KentuckyTroper1990 from Take a wild guess... Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#231: Nov 17th 2013 at 4:30:28 PM

I don't recall any new information. And since this keeps coming up, we might just need Fast Eddie to make a ruling.

edited 17th Nov '13 4:31:29 PM by KentuckyTroper1990

tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#232: Nov 17th 2013 at 4:36:09 PM

As I said when asked through PM to address this will having the spelling as Meer or Miir lead to kuru creating a zombie pandemic? Is it really that important?

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
KentuckyTroper1990 from Take a wild guess... Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#233: Nov 17th 2013 at 4:38:27 PM

I never thought it was important. I was more annoyed that Marq edits EVERY instance of it based off a random, possibly misspelled picture. If he'd just acknowledge a happy medium here(He can say Meer, others can say Miia, Spell My Name With An S sort of thing) I'd be happy.

tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
KentuckyTroper1990 from Take a wild guess... Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#236: Nov 18th 2013 at 12:48:34 AM

Kentucky, on what basis did you revert-edit the names back to Miia? You're jumping the gun with assuming that Septimus's response in Ask The Tropers equates to "Problem resolved; it's Miia, end of discussion".

Look, Marq. You wanna show it as Meer? Fine. That's not a problem. Next time you add an example, spell it as Meer. Other people can spell it as Miia. Cause that's how the majority see it. If you'd quit being obnoxious Mr. "Edit every Miia in every article" guy, this wouldn't be an issue.
I never thought it was important. I was more annoyed that Marq edits EVERY instance of it based off a random, possibly misspelled picture. If he'd just acknowledge a happy medium here(He can say Meer, others can say Miia, Spell My Name with an S sort of thing) I'd be happy.
If my editing of the character's name on the work's main page and subpagesare considered obnoxious, then the original mass editing of every instance of "Meer" to "Miia" back in June of this year is equally obnoxious and should be treated with the same response that you're giving to me. Yes, you are reading this right: All I edit was revert a unilateral mass-edit by one troper note  that did not bother to publicly discuss such a big change with other people. Please check the facts before you start calling people names and falsely accusing them.

Also, I'd like an honest answer to this question: What is wrong with requesting a status quo ante editus and a moratorium on spelling-changing the name on the main page and its subpage until Volume 2 gets an official translation, so that we can solidly confirm whether or not Volume 1's spelling choice was simply a mistake on part of the translators?

Oh, and would you cut it with the overt antagonism already? It's not conducive to a civil discussion.

What's so arbitrary and selective about it? I explained the logic.
The logic, while arguable, isn't so bad. It's that you're only applying it to one character over the rest. The fan-translator, for example, insists on rendering Centaurea's name as "Centorea".

I'd consider Marq's reasoning to be sensible and correct, but if the official translation calls her the wrong thing, I'm afraid it's not our place to enforce the "correct" way. Insisting on another term would just make the article harder to read for people already familiar with the work (but not familiar enough to know about the source of our preferred spelling).
Now that more reasonable of a "pro-Miia" argument than most of the others that I've read, even if I don't agree 100% with it.

edited 18th Nov '13 12:54:51 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#237: Nov 18th 2013 at 2:41:24 AM

We could do the thing where we bung all the different spellings on the character sheet, at least.

tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#238: Nov 18th 2013 at 2:44:55 AM

Question: The argument for Miir is a poster seen in one of the mangas, right? This overrides all the other spelling in the manga? Online sources and research into the proper spelling? Moderator intervention?

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#239: Nov 18th 2013 at 5:39:53 AM

We could do the thing where we bung all the different spellings on the character sheet, at least.
What does "bung" mean?

In any case, before the June mass-edit to "Miia", the character sheet already mentioned both spellings, and my edit-reversion (prior to Kentucky's own, unilateral reversion) maintained that; heck, I even added a blurb about the fan-translator's rather questionable reasons for refusing to use the official spellings.

Question: The argument for Meer is a poster seen in one of the mangas, right?
Correct. More accurately, it's from a chapter cover. Said chapter has yet to get an official English translation, AFAIK, as it's in Volume 2.

This overrides all the other spelling in the manga?
Yes and no. Why the odd answer you ask? Because there is no other spelling of the name in the manga; up until Chapter 10's cover, we only had the katakana to go by, and it only gives us the phonetic pronunciation of the name in Japanese. And yes, Miia is how "Meer" (with a long i-sound) would be pronounced in Japanese; the double-i for the long i-sound, and the "a" because normally the -er is rendered as a double-a when the preceding letter is a consonant or a short vowel, but here it's attached to a long vowel.

Online sources and research into the proper spelling?
If by that you mean looking around for the name "Meer", then I'll save you the trouble: I have yet to find any evidence that the name "Meer" even exists, beyond its usage as the name of Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny character Meer Campbell. The word "Meer", however, is an actual German word that means "sea" or "lake", and going by what Wiktionary says, it does sound a lot like "Miia" (though it seems to be voiced with a long e-sound).

Moderator intervention?
Well, I'd prefer if moderator intervention isn't based on an arbitrary choice, but whatever the staff says, we wouldn't be able to help but abide with it, at least until new information comes that genuinely puts the decision's validity into question.

edited 18th Nov '13 5:40:21 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#240: Nov 18th 2013 at 5:44:42 AM

Sorry, I meant we should put the various spellings on the character sheet. I went a bit Yorkshire then.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#241: Nov 18th 2013 at 5:46:30 AM

Nah, don't worry too much. I'm always up for learning new words from unfamiliar dialects/languages. Besides, I seem to have correctly guessed what you were trying to say.

edited 18th Nov '13 5:47:06 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Colonial1.1 Purveyor of Obscurity from The Marvelous River City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Purveyor of Obscurity
#242: Nov 18th 2013 at 7:27:42 AM

...A page and half of this bickering. Why are we yakking this much over a bally pronunciation and spelling difference more than the actual content?

"He could not know it. For it was not all a joke."
absolclaw Since: Jan, 2001
#243: Nov 18th 2013 at 11:09:22 AM

Because it's the character's name? inb4 a future chapter has someone debating over her name.

Speaking of, when do you reckon we'll end up seeing the one who sent the letter? Surely I'm not the only one thinking it was a Dullahan.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#244: Nov 18th 2013 at 11:42:22 AM

Having read the Japanese version, I can swear up and down that her name is Miia. Meea, maybe, if you're sold on the es, but there is absolutely no reason to call her 'Meer' when the characters have never once said it. We're talking one typo against several dozen uses of her actual name.

^Oh yeah, it might actually be a Dullahan, at that. She is one of the few from the original who hasn't shown up yet.

Also, if you need any more help on the other names, just ask. I'll be glad to assist.

edited 18th Nov '13 11:43:44 AM by RedSavant

It's been fun.
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#245: Nov 18th 2013 at 12:10:21 PM

[up] I don't understand what you are saying. There wasn't a typo anywhere. The problem we're dealing with is that there was a cover page with the characters' names written in the Latin alphabet, with the implication that that's how their names are spelled in English. You can't say that they never call her "Meer" when (unless you're, like, speaking about the German noun) it would be transcribed into katakana the exact same way.

I think what happened is that the author intended the names as obvious references to the characters' species in katakana, but thought it would be more interesting to render their "actual" names a little more opaque so that the obviousness of the names would seem as more of a fortunate coincidence in-universe. Except he didn't get more than that one opportunity to showcase that tidbit and so it went flying right over every translator's head.

edited 18th Nov '13 12:12:11 PM by Fawriel

KentuckyTroper1990 from Take a wild guess... Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#246: Nov 18th 2013 at 1:07:32 PM

I'm getting the general consensus that it should be Miia. Can we agree to that and just move on already?

Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#247: Nov 18th 2013 at 1:25:20 PM

So do you reckon Centorea has two hearts or what?

KentuckyTroper1990 from Take a wild guess... Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#248: Nov 18th 2013 at 1:41:23 PM

She's a Centaur, not a Time Lord.

Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#249: Nov 18th 2013 at 1:47:09 PM

That's a common feature seen when people try to figure out exactly what's going on in a centaur's body. It makes sense too, as a human heart might struggle to get blood around a body that has a headless horse where it's legs are supposed to be.

KentuckyTroper1990 from Take a wild guess... Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#250: Nov 18th 2013 at 1:51:04 PM

Eh. Her insides have never really been of interest to me. I'm more focused on those two beach balls attached to her chest.


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