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The Order of the Stick: Rules Discussion

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This is the thread for discussing Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition rules and how they may or may not apply to The Order of the Stick.

Discuss away, and please keep it civil. Discussion of the comic itself — plot, characters, and so forth — goes here.

    Basic facts for context: 
  • OOTS is a webcomic set in an RPG Mechanics 'Verse based on Dungeons & Dragons version 3.5, with a custom setting and cosmology, using mainly Open Gaming License (OGL) and homebrew content.
  • Tropers unfamiliar with D&D 3.5 may wish to visit http://www.d20srd.org/ to learn the details of the system or look up terminology. We will assume discussion to be about the D&D 3.5 rules unless stated otherwise.
  • The author has specifically stated that, while he attempts to work within the letter of the rules as much as possible, OOTS is at heart a story and story trumps rules. This is a cautionary statement against overanalyzing.
  • Any discussion of D&D cosmology should acknowledge that OOTS is entirely homebrew in this regard and nothing about it in any of the core rulebooks or supplemental material can be assumed to be canon.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Feb 22nd 2024 at 11:46:50 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1901: Feb 13th 2016 at 4:28:38 PM

[up] Correct; however, the preparation of the Power Word is as complex as any other high-level spell, the formulae for which take up the appropriate number of pages in a spellbook.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#1902: Feb 13th 2016 at 4:29:50 PM

Found the strip, btw: [1]

I just wanted to make it clear that most other spells involve more than simply stating the words. It's a special word. A Power word, if you will.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#1903: Feb 13th 2016 at 4:31:12 PM

Yeah, that's it. It's funny but jokes like that sort of lose their kick if you realize that there is no reason Vaarsuvius shouldn't already know that's how it works.

Matues Since: Sep, 2011
#1904: Feb 13th 2016 at 10:36:46 PM

Tangent: According to an explanation I read (everything after this could be dead wrong) the Power Word spells were grandfathered in from the older edition (AD&D?), where a slightly different system was used for action order.

As I recall each turn was divided into ten or so "ticks"(Segments?) and each action had a specific penalty as to how slow it was. Slower actions went on a later tick than quicker ones. You declared actions at the beginning of the turn; Most spells took a number of ticks equal to their level- Power Word spells were special because they were fast. Instead of a lengthy incantation, you could muster the effect with a single word.

Of course 3.5 doesn't have a similar system; many spells take the same action to perform.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1905: Feb 13th 2016 at 10:49:48 PM

Yeah, both AD&D and 2nd edition gave spells distinct casting times in terms of "ticks", each of which represented a pip on an initiative die. When your initiative came up in a turn, you would begin casting the spell, and it would complete casting X ticks later.

Let's say I roll a 4 for initiative and my opponent rolls an 8. My turn comes up and I start casting a 5th level spell (assuming that it has the default casting time). This spell will complete casting at initiative 9. My opponent acts on 8 and hits me, causing the spell to fizzle. These editions had no Concentration checks; if you were struck while casting, you automatically lost the spell, but that could only occur during the period of time between starting the cast and it completing.

Those systems also had no attacks of opportunity; the only way to guarantee disrupting a caster was to hold your action until their initiative.

edited 13th Feb '16 10:50:56 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1906: Feb 14th 2016 at 7:20:42 AM

But wait, if you can hold your action (I don't remember that being a thing in pre-3E, but now that I think about it, the old SSI games did have delay as an option), then couldn't the weezard just wait until the end of the initiative round and then cast their spell? Initiative didn't "boil over" into the next round, right?

I vaguely recall the casting time rules, but the specifics of initiative evade me.

Also, I do think that attacks of opportunity existed, but only for movement, if only because that's how it works in the SSI games.

edited 14th Feb '16 7:21:42 AM by TheyCallMeTomu

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1907: Feb 14th 2016 at 7:38:06 AM

I cannot recall offhand if there were free attacks when someone moved past your space. I do know that you could delay your initiative to act after another character if you wanted. It's been a while.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1908: Feb 14th 2016 at 7:40:02 AM

At least in the SSI games, you got a free attack when someone left your melee reach. You could move around them without provoking, but if you moved out of reach ,BLAMMO stabbed in the back!

Again, same rules as 5E. Not sure if that was actual D&D or something magical and mystical created for the SSI games.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1909: Feb 14th 2016 at 7:42:12 AM

Well, my 2nd edition books are long gone (destroyed in a flood), so I cannot look the rules up to check, unless I go find some illicit online source.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
johnnye Since: Jan, 2001
#1910: Feb 14th 2016 at 9:45:32 AM

"I just wanted to make it clear that most other spells involve more than simply stating the words. It's a special word. A Power word, if you will."

Then again, we're dealing with a world where the verbal component for Holy Word is, er, "Holy". If saying that word was all it took to cast the spell...

(Yes, I suppose the font suggests he's saying it in Celestial or something. But still, all you'd need is a good bilingual dictionary.)

edited 14th Feb '16 9:45:55 AM by johnnye

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#1911: Feb 14th 2016 at 10:35:08 AM

I'd imagine the whole thing is a nod towards systems of magic where the words themselves do hold power. So I don't really see why Holy Word should be different. It's still just a word that's inherently holy.

CountDorku Behold my legal acumen! from the depths of insanity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Behold my legal acumen!
#1912: Feb 14th 2016 at 11:33:26 AM

I suspect that in the Burlewverse Power Word: Blind is literally just saying    BLIND   .

Unless that already happened and I simply forgot, I guess.

edited 14th Feb '16 11:34:10 AM by CountDorku

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1913: Feb 14th 2016 at 1:01:20 PM

You have to remember: for classes that prepare spells, most of the spell itself is "cast" in preparation. The act of actually casting the spell is just "activating" it.

ashnazg Since: Dec, 2009
#1914: Feb 15th 2016 at 6:24:53 AM

[up][up]Well, we already had something similar when V cast Power Word: Stun.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#1915: Mar 1st 2016 at 2:08:17 PM

Someone mentioned Limited Wish on the other thread, so I went to check it out, but I'm not sure I understand the wording about the XP cost: Does this mean the spell always costs XP, or only when duplicating a spell that has an XP cost?

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#1916: Mar 1st 2016 at 2:34:31 PM

Only when duplicating a spell that has that cost already. (It seems pretty straightforward to me.)

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#1917: Mar 1st 2016 at 2:44:15 PM

According to the SRD, the spell always costs a minimum of 300 XP.

If you're duplicating a spell with a higher XP cost, you pay the higher cost.

edited 1st Mar '16 2:44:23 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
johnnye Since: Jan, 2001
#1918: Mar 2nd 2016 at 9:09:38 AM

But most spells don't have any XP cost at all, right?

"When a limited wish duplicates a spell that has an XP cost, you must pay that cost or 300 XP, whichever is more."

So if it has an XP cost at all, you either pay that cost, or if that cost is less than 300, you pay a minimum of 300. If it doesn't have any XP cost, you don't pay any XP. That's how I read it.

edited 2nd Mar '16 9:11:01 AM by johnnye

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#1919: Mar 2nd 2016 at 9:39:53 AM

XP is a Component of casting Limited Wish.

Components: V, S, XP

That means you always have to pay it. Limited Wish requires you to speak an incantation, perform a somatic gesture, and sacrifice a minimum of 300 XP in order to produce its effect. You can't skip components unless you have specific feats that let you, and I don't think there even is a feat for skipping XP components.

The If statement is simply clarifying that you don't have to pay the XP cost of a duplicated spell in addition to the 300, but you do have to pay it instead of the 300 if it's higher.

edited 2nd Mar '16 9:42:17 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#1921: Jun 21st 2016 at 11:27:40 PM

^Grappling is best way to disable spellcasters I'll have you know :D

ashnazg Since: Dec, 2009
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1923: Jun 22nd 2016 at 6:56:19 AM

If you have a sufficient Fortitude save to ignore the lich's paralyzing touch, then grappling it is no more inherently dangerous than grappling any other creature.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
johnnye Since: Jan, 2001
#1924: Jun 22nd 2016 at 6:57:23 AM

Someone with Death Ward and no sense of smell?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1925: Jun 22nd 2016 at 7:03:23 AM

[up] Liches are bony undead; there's no flesh left to rot, which is what gives rise to the smell.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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