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The Order of the Stick: Rules Discussion

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This is the thread for discussing Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition rules and how they may or may not apply to The Order of the Stick.

Discuss away, and please keep it civil. Discussion of the comic itself — plot, characters, and so forth — goes here.

    Basic facts for context: 
  • OOTS is a webcomic set in an RPG Mechanics 'Verse based on Dungeons & Dragons version 3.5, with a custom setting and cosmology, using mainly Open Gaming License (OGL) and homebrew content.
  • Tropers unfamiliar with D&D 3.5 may wish to visit http://www.d20srd.org/ to learn the details of the system or look up terminology. We will assume discussion to be about the D&D 3.5 rules unless stated otherwise.
  • The author has specifically stated that, while he attempts to work within the letter of the rules as much as possible, OOTS is at heart a story and story trumps rules. This is a cautionary statement against overanalyzing.
  • Any discussion of D&D cosmology should acknowledge that OOTS is entirely homebrew in this regard and nothing about it in any of the core rulebooks or supplemental material can be assumed to be canon.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Feb 22nd 2024 at 11:46:50 AM

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#226: May 9th 2012 at 9:31:01 AM

Hmmm... upon further review, a Ring of Rapid Healing-despite being located in the Epic Level Handbook-only takes a 20th level caster to make. Ergo, I'm not sure it actually counts as an epic level spell.

If Malack is 20th level, he could have made it for him. Though again, even then, it's only 3rd level. Twinking the magic item system with things like "cast cure critical wounds on yourself at-will" or the like would be a lot easier. Actually, there's some other spell effects that might be better-the Spell Compendium has "vigor" spells that give short duration healing over time.

dazai Since: Jan, 2001
#227: May 19th 2012 at 4:53:19 AM

Think Crystal's knife had any magical abilities?

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#228: May 19th 2012 at 5:13:18 AM

Well it's at least the basic +X.

Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#229: May 19th 2012 at 6:16:26 AM

Crystal states that it's a +4 dagger.

dazai Since: Jan, 2001
#230: May 21st 2012 at 8:54:22 AM

wonder how much damage that'll add to Haley's sneak attacks.

edited 21st May '12 8:55:51 AM by dazai

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#231: May 21st 2012 at 9:21:35 AM

Very little. Sneak Attack is a number of d6 of additional damage that is determined by your Rogue level. The weapon's base damage is irrelevant to the calculation, although it of course still counts.

If a dagger is base 1d4 damage, than a +4 dagger does 1d4+4, absent any Strength or other bonuses. If Haley has 7d6 of Sneak Attack damage (I don't know the exact value), a successful Sneak Attack would inflict 1d4+4+7d6 damage.

The enhancement bonus does multiply on a critical hit, however, so if she crits with the dagger (again I don't recall precisely, but I think daggers are x3 crit), it's 3d4+12, plus an additional 7d6 again if it's also a Sneak Attack.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#232: May 21st 2012 at 9:26:33 AM

Putting it shorter: +4 dagger over a nonmagical dagger is just that +4 damage.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#233: May 21st 2012 at 9:54:31 AM

Isn't Haley's bow a +3 or +4 Icy Blast bow anyway? So I don't think the dagger gives a whole lot there. Heck, I don't even know if Haley has Weapon Finesse!

If she does, though, a melee weapon allows her to flank enemies, thus getting sneak attack just by being adjacent to an enemy that's adjacent to an enemy on the other side. It'd allow Elan to be useful for something for once.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#234: May 21st 2012 at 9:56:02 AM

I think he WAS already used as a flanking pole O_o

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#236: May 21st 2012 at 10:04:50 AM

...

I didn't say you did (though I see how it could be read that way). But if Haley has a +0 strength modifier and a +5 dex modifier, then using a melee weapon means she's at an effective -5 to hit, and it doesn't matter how much damage she deals if she can't hit the broad side of a barn.

edited 21st May '12 10:05:18 AM by TheyCallMeTomu

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#237: May 21st 2012 at 10:08:00 AM

It makes a difference for her hitting the target, yes, but not for whether she qualifies for flanking or Sneak Attack bonuses.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#238: May 21st 2012 at 10:10:08 AM

Rephrase: "WF allows her to flank while still being effective herself" <_<

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#239: May 21st 2012 at 10:10:43 AM

Right. But a -5 effective penalty to hit means -50% effective damage per attack if you need an 11 to hit. (Weird way to put it, but what I mean is, going from needing an 11 to hit to needing a 16 is losing half your effective damage for that attack).

A Shortbow automatically uses dexmod to hit, rather than Str Mod. Likewise, she probably has Weapon Focus in it.

edited 21st May '12 10:12:18 AM by TheyCallMeTomu

dazai Since: Jan, 2001
#240: May 27th 2012 at 10:39:11 PM

So if Tarquin was a level 18 or 19 Fighter could he give the Order as much trouble as he could if he were Epic?

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#241: May 27th 2012 at 10:43:05 PM

Eh, Epic Fighters don't get a *whole* lot of stuff at low end epic. It's basically all gear. And we don't have any reason to think Tarquin has access to any epic level spellcasters, so I don't think that that makes much of a difference.

Really after a certain point what Epic level fighters do is just keep adding on extra base attack bonus, to max their accuracy, or start buffing their strength to up their damage.

Really, it'd make more sense game mechanics wise if Tarquin were a Warblade, but again, I sincerely doubt it.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242: May 28th 2012 at 12:13:22 AM

And we don't have any reason to think Tarquin has access to any epic level spellcasters

He's got his old adventuring party buddies.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#243: May 28th 2012 at 4:57:16 AM

He has Malack. He and they should all be comparable in level; that's traditional for adventuring parties. If neither Tarquin nor Malack is epic-level, there is no reason to believe that their other buddies would be.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#244: May 28th 2012 at 8:33:31 AM

So, I think I pinned down Tarquin's feats in that first round of combat based on the flow of battle: First, Roy attacks and misses with a Charge, then Tarquin Trips him down the staris. Then, he Snatches Haley's arrow (The discussion on whether that's him or an item is for another time), and stabs Belkar before Belkar takes his action.

The fact that he AO Os Belkar before he makes his attack rules out Robilar's Gambit; ordinarily, AO Os resolve before the action that provoked it fully happens, but Robilar's Gambit specifically states that you resolve your attack of opportunity after your foe's attack. But Tarquin stabs Belkar before he can swing, so that has to be a mundane AOO, which means Sidestep Charge.

However, he trips Roy after Roy's swing. Normally, AO Os resolve first, as I already said. However, Defensive Throw says that you trip the opponent after he swings and misses, if he's the guy you've chosen for Dodge that round.

Just taking the actions by themselves, there are a few options, but judging by the flow of combat as shown, I'm led to believe that it has to be Defensive Throw and Sidestep Charge. If both AO Os resolved after the attacks, I'd say Robilar's Gambit. If both resolved before the attacks, I'd say Sidestep Charge only. But since the trip happens after, and the stab happens before, it's gotta be this, from my understanding.

In short, based on the flow of battle, he has Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Sidestep Charge, and Defensive Throw.

If he's using a magic item for Snatch Arrows, and he isn't a Fighter, that puts him at at least level 15. Of course, he's probably got a slew more feats, especially considering whatever it was he did with Durkon. I'm thinking he's a high-level Fighter, or at least took some levels for bonus Feats.

I have a message from another time...
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#245: May 28th 2012 at 9:57:49 AM

He probably has Combat Expertise, for that matter.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#246: May 28th 2012 at 9:59:30 AM

Yea, what's the list of "must have" feats for every proper fighter?

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#247: May 28th 2012 at 10:08:23 AM

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, and Power Attack are somewhere on the list of feats you want. Combat Reflexes massively improves your skill with Attacks of Opportunity: allowing you to make them while flat-footed, and giving you extra AOO per turn based on your Dexterity.

Power Attack lets you drop your to-hit in exchange for more power, and Combat Expertise lets you do the same in exchange for added AC that turn.

Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack are also nice. Dodge is the gateway, Mobility gives you added AC against AO Os, and Spring Attack lets you move before and after you attack.

I have a message from another time...
dazai Since: Jan, 2001
#248: Jun 13th 2012 at 9:49:28 PM

Are there any good clerical trap spells that aren't homebrews?

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#249: Jun 13th 2012 at 9:59:40 PM

Not really the cleric's style. I forget if Clerics can cast Guards and Wards.

Shinziril Since: Feb, 2011
#250: Jun 14th 2012 at 2:24:08 PM

SRD says that Guards and Wards is Sor/Wiz only.

Glyph of Warding (or its Greater equivalent) makes a decent magical landmine and is a Cleric spell, but that takes 10 minutes to cast and has an expensive material component. The various Symbol spells (Symbol of Sleep, Symbol of Death, etc) are the same, and their material components are even more expensive.

Meld into Stone would let Durkon hide in the walls, but not anyone else (it's a personal-range spell). Blade Barrier is always amusing. Ethereal Jaunt makes you invisible and insubstantial for more hiding-in-the-walls fun, but it's another personal-range spell.

That's all I can see from the SRD cleric spell list. Do we know Durkon's domains? Those have a few unusual spells in them, sometimes.

And, of course, for it to be useful now, he'd have to have it already prepared.


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