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Detroit: Become Human (by Quantic Dream)

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LE0Night Since: Jul, 2011
#101: Jan 14th 2018 at 9:23:02 AM

There's a bit of a potentially promo-derailing scandal brewing alleging that Quantic Dreams' working conditions aren't of the particularly wholesome sort.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#102: Jan 14th 2018 at 9:52:40 AM

[up][up]There is no way whatsoever that such behaviors would be within the parameters of a man-made machine.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#103: Jan 14th 2018 at 10:25:04 AM

[up][up] I've always defended Cage but...this is way out-of-line. Fuck.

SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#104: Jan 14th 2018 at 3:03:34 PM

I'm starting to see why Silicon Valley and the tech industry in general is getting a bad rap when it comes to employee satisfaction and harassment issues. Wasn't there a complaint about how much employee burn-out CD Projekt Red suffered just a couple of months back? Heck, at least they get a partial pass, because nobody there was stupid enough to photoshop the heads of fellow co-workers onto offensive images.

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#105: Jan 15th 2018 at 7:40:08 AM

I work in a tech firm (UK based) and whilst it's not gaming I can see the problems here.

Management is either non-techie, so doesn't set realistic targets for projects, or overpromise. The techies either don't express problems clearly, or can't seem to prioritise elements easily - they are all programmers and specialists, so not broad consultants or able to easily adapt to different circumstances or manage risk (Not saying they can't, just that they struggle)

They're resistant to change, all have a startup mentality so struggle when more structure is brought in. Couple that with this project planning resulting in overload, or the "client" (A publisher or the client who wil lget the product) asking for more, or trying to do last minute changes that fundamentally alter anything.

For some reason, tech seems to suffer the most from this - with the clients expecting things to just pivot. And that stems from not understanding knock on effects to technology; a weakness of leadership (They can't manage people); a startup culture where everyone assumes they're all "mates"; and a resistance to ideas or changes.

So far, I'm seeing certain personalities gain traction and influence. And their ideas are the ones that get pushed through, no matter how inane or contradictory. And other ideas are brushed aside or hemmed and hawwed. It's also bad if the non techies just buy into a techie who is confident (Even if they start talking about IT software they aren't that familiar with - the managers can end up deferring to them)

Flat structures, lack of any guidance of who is responsible for anything; lack of management support or structure; lack of real oversight planning and overall resistance / contempt for anyone trying to put in place processes or structural responsibility.

SlavetoTropes Since: Nov, 2017
#106: Jun 3rd 2018 at 2:37:12 PM

With the game released, maybe this thread could get some activity.

As I'm not yet sure about most of the story-elements (I'll need to see the results of different decisions to see to what degree some things schange), I can say with certainity that the execution is really good tp rgeat. Especially the visual aspect is pretty top notch (imho). Not only from the technical side, but the framing of certain shots, themes and details are really nice.

The soundtrack is pretty immersive, too. You get a really cinematic feel in some of the scenes.

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#107: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:05:44 AM

I've just been watching the Super Best Friends and Jesse Cox Let's Plays, it genuinely seems like one of the better David Cage games so far, possibly even the best one.

I mean, it only has to beat Heavy Rain to be 'the best', but still. I'll take a good game over a mess like Beyond any day. Just waiting for the space bugs... wink

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#108: Jun 4th 2018 at 2:32:22 PM

I just finished it myself. Overall I think this isn't just David Cage's best game, but a decent to good game in general.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#109: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:42:43 PM

Being a hardcore fan of police mysteries, Heavy Rain still tops Detroit for me, but only for that. The graphics are amazing, the choices are very branching and I love the questions that are posed about our future and how I would respond to them.

Life is unfair...
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#110: Jun 15th 2018 at 4:32:18 PM

Connor's actor, Bryan Dechart, did a LP of Detroit with Traci's actress (Amelia Rose Balire) beside him.

entropy13 Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#111: Jun 16th 2018 at 6:23:28 AM

[up]You should've mentioned that he has streamed playthroughs multiple times now, and has even featured Kamski/Gavin's and Ralph's actors in his Twitch channel to play a few missions.

His Twitch channel is one of the fastest growing in the last 30 days, and IIRC it's barely 3 weeks old. LOL

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#112: Jun 16th 2018 at 11:00:52 AM

So, which of the three stories do you think is the best one? For me, while I think Markus has some of the best scenes, and Kara's the most relatable, I am the biggest fan of Connor's story. I like detective stories more than stories about political activism or abuse, and this is no different.

The legend has returned.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#113: Jun 16th 2018 at 11:22:02 AM

General consensus is that Connor's story is the best from a writing and execution standpoint. I personally tie it with Markus' story as far as personal enjoyment goes.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#114: Sep 25th 2018 at 10:34:29 PM

I finally pick this up and the meta-ness is weirding me out.

The main menu lady tells me as soon as I open the CHAPTERS menu that "the people who designed her advised that [I] play through the story at least once without going back - no matter what happens." Creepy~

THE HOSTAGE ended with Connor sacrificing himself to save the girl. But if this means he's out of the story then I want to go back and change things. I'm debating going back and just exploring the other options.

What did you all do?

Edited by Soble on Sep 26th 2018 at 7:02:39 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#115: Sep 26th 2018 at 6:57:14 AM

In my first play-through I messed up the negotiations, so I had to sacrifice Connor to save the girl.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#116: Sep 26th 2018 at 7:02:14 AM

Did you go back to explore other options or did you play straight through?

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#117: Sep 26th 2018 at 8:00:05 AM

I never did a "proper" second run. I did a speed run after beating the game once, so I had to pick options I thought were the quickest.

Lavaeolus Since: Jan, 2015
#118: Sep 26th 2018 at 11:04:48 AM

I'm debating going back and just exploring the other options.

In this case, I'd actually suggest rolling with it. You're not going to miss out on content, as odd as it sounds.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#119: Sep 26th 2018 at 3:11:15 PM

@Weird Guy: I found Connor to be the most interesting one. I don't know why, but I felt much more freedom in how I approached the world with him, I only made him deviate at the very last speech, while Kara and Markus already have set goals and motivations to guide them, which made for excellent stories, but Connor's was that with a "mold him" bonus. Plus, Bryan Dechart is a babe. tongue

Life is unfair...
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#120: Jan 13th 2019 at 12:10:09 PM

Well I rolled with it.

Right up until Marcus shot Connor at the church. My heart couldn't take it and I went back to reverse it, but, now I'm struggling to turn the game back on and play it the way it went the first time.

My thoughts about this game as I approach the end are:

  • Kara's part in the story lessened significantly
    • Kara and Alice are a middle ground between Marcus's radical uprising and Connor's law enforcement. But once Marcus's part ramped up I'd nearly forgotten about them. Definitely a huge shift from when the game started and Marcus seemed the most out of focus.
    • Also what was up with that one android who gave Jericho the info about Zlatko? He just up and vanishes, and we know it was a trap so... did he know that? Did Zlatko program him to ensure that androids would find him?
  • Marcus
    • Maybe I just missed it but it feels like we missed some parts of the story where Marcus became radicalized. It's easy to understand that he feels betrayed after what happened with Carl and his son, but he takes to finding Jericho and leading its people in the coming conflict a little too easily.
    • I'm not sure when he became an excellent fighter either, or gained the ability to "free" other androids. The story paints him as this messiah and he's the only person shown freeing the other androids - my guess was that his "deviancy" was just as transferable as anything but it wasn't really explained.
      • Initially I thought that this was like I-Robot where every android was a superhuman gymnast, but we see with Kara that this isn't exactly the case. Maybe that's just because she's designed for housekeeping, but then I don't see why Marcus would be such a capable fighter unless it's due to the parts he scavenged, or because he was programmed for self-defense and home security? Or maybe it just ties into the theme of the androids being more than their programming and he just evolved that way, but still. His instant badassery after finding Jericho was strange to me.
    • His parkour section was the most grating, tedious section of the game and I loathe the thought of having to go back through it. Reminds me of the farm level of Beyond Two Souls. Ugggh.
  • The bromance between Hank and Connor.
    • I pretty much tied Connor's morality to Hank's opinion of him. Not proud of that, but it seemed like the story was going that way. Though apparently there's a couple of sections of the game where Hank just won't be there if you let him get injured. I'll have to explore that later.
    • There was a moment after they met with Kamski that Connor questions Hank's suicidal tendencies. Unfortunately Connor dropped the subject awkwardly and went back to discussing the situation. There's been a lot of moments like that in this game.
  • The dialogue just gets weird at times
    • I've not found a story-driven game like this where I didn't at some point go, "wait, that conversation didn't finish, why are we talking about this now?"
    • At times the game leaves you too many options. I think you could mitigate the first problem by solving this one - certain dialogues should trigger the end of a conversation instead of having the player whittle down the topics. I saw this more in Connor's portion of the game whenever you were examining evidence - Connor has to make certain deductions so it's almost necessary that the game "steer" you to the right response, but still.

Some cool things:

  • Alice
    • So... I wrote off the scene when Kara's cleaning Todd's room and finds a "dirty magazine" on the ground, or at least I thought it was. It wasn't. I like how they brought that back up, but the option to be "distant" towards her seems strange. Kara was loving and attentive towards Alice in my playthrough so the revelation wouldn't really have changed that relationship. I can't really see how it would have.
    • I had it spoiled that Alice can actually be killed during A Stormy Night and I'm curious where Kara's storyline goes from there.
    • That reveal says more about Todd than I would have thought Todd has to have known she was an android, so my guess is that he and his wife were infertile and decided to "buy" a daughter and that he got stuck with her afterward. What with her getting cold and sick I really didn't see that coming. I don't think they'd described this society as having replacement android children yet so that really caught me off guard. I wonder what the plan is for Alice if and when she runs into any other families with Alice's of their own.
    • Also puts a hole in what I said before about them being a middle ground - I suppose it says something about me that I thought Alice was human the whole time and protected her as such, but if it's thematically supposed to represent a human and an android caring about one another then it's dishonest. Hank and Connor, and Marcus and Carl would fill that position better. I don't know if that revelation was worth it.
  • Crossroads
    • This chapter might have been excellent but Connor switched sides and looking at the story chart I feel like I missed a great deal because it went that way.
    • Even worse was that Connor was killed shortly after due to Marcus not trusting him. That nearly broke my heart and I backpedaled to course-correct, but now I'm real curious if that was a dead end for Connor or if he would have returned as another RK-800.
  • Amanda
    • I knew something was off about her, but I didn't figure it was all in Connor's head. Interesting that his software creates a garden area where he can see the graves of his past lives.
  • Chloe
    • I stopped to go back after what happened between Connor and Marcus in the church and I could tell her expression was different. Then I went to press continue and she freaked out on me and asked if it wouldn't be better to leave things as they are. Two trips to the main menu later she had something eerily more human/panicked to say to me.
    • So. What's the deal with how she "develops?" I can't tell if it's because at that point I had Marcus declare revolution and kill Connor, or if she automatically becomes more human/emotional the farther you are along. Be kind of cool if she's directly reacting to the events of the story.
  • Public opinion
    • So far the public hates androids. That riot scene was... gahd damn that was cool.

Edited by Soble on Jan 13th 2019 at 12:58:31 PM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#121: Jan 13th 2019 at 12:43:58 PM

Nevermind, I misread the post.

Edited by VeryMelon on Jan 13th 2019 at 3:45:27 PM

ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#122: Jan 14th 2019 at 11:22:22 AM

At a guess, I think that the idea with Alice is that Kara is inclined to think of a human child as requiring parental love. Furthermore, she wants to be a mother, and so is looking for a child in Alice. She, and the player with her, are encouraged to bond with Alice. Thus when the reveal comes, both she and we are asked: do we still feel the same? Do we still care for an android child as we would for a human child? Has anything really changed? Hence the option to either be affectionate towards or distant from her.

My Games and Asset Packs
Angeldeb82 Since: Dec, 2010
#123: Jan 14th 2019 at 11:41:22 AM

Here's Zero Punctuation's review on the game:

BTW, Yahtzee ranked it as the fifth worst game of 2018:

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#124: Jan 14th 2019 at 11:49:07 AM

[up] (2)

Makes sense I guess. I just figured that when Kara broke her programming "wall" all bets were off. That she would love Alice any less for not being human when Kara herself is becoming more human seemed odd.

Or I guess I was just staunchly in the "no it doesn't a change thing why are you even asking" camp.

[up] Oh joy. Well Yahtzee can flock off.

With the exception of some of Marcus's segments this might be the most entertaining Quantic Dream game I've played. Which reminds me that I still have to play Indigo Prophecy.

Edited by Soble on Jan 14th 2019 at 12:05:06 PM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#125: Jan 14th 2019 at 11:49:30 AM

Detroit: Become Human sales pass 2 million copies

  Just randomly looking at its Wikipedia page and thought I'd post this since it's somewhat recent news. Looks like the game did well. Then again, most of their games have. The Internet is just a weird pocket of hate for everything David Cage.

If I ever own a PS 4 again I might try this.

I'm curious about something, though. We were talking about violence in video games elsewhere which spun off from a talk about sexiness in video games. Some people are more squeamish about having bouncing boobs everywhere then playing, I dunno, Manhunt. Others meanwhile are more put off by violence. Me,  I grew up on MK and GTA. I have no problem with faces being ripped off and heads popping and all that cartoony goodness. Even horror games never bothered me. No, the only video game where violence got to me was Heavy Rain. That finger trial is just...it's perfectly done in how much it makes me squirm and cringe.

  Is there anything like that in Detroit?

P.S.

Somebody responded to me talking about HR's finger amputation by citing one of the Walking Dead games where you can saw off your arm....

P.S.S.

I'm glad in Beyond when your boyfriend gets his eye put out that this doesn't go very long. Considering it was an interrogation, I was terrified they would drag it out because...well, that makes good, sadistic sense. But the game didn't and I am grateful.


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