Hmmm, the link indeed is free advertisement, so I'd say you're right on that count.
However, the existence of the page itself alone has never felt very advertising to me. Like other crappy fapfics it serves to show how terrible they are. The people I've asked about it only talk about the work in a mocking tone. It looks like the page makes it notorious.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerI think we're dealing with cultural clashes between those who believe that even young teenagers can't handle content that you can find in popular YA books or in comic books (yes, shoujo manga is for TEENAGERS, mostly. And yes, American teens read it. It's rated 13+ mostly) and those who are a little more flexible.
In the day and age of Google and other search engines, it's not just a question of links anymore. A mere mention like this is advertisement. Word of mouth, basically. However, usually word of mouth spreads if people do endorse the things thusly advertised. And therein is the problem...
No. It's not that. At least not for me. Age and age barriers are not the problem, or at least not the biggest. The problem is that some feel strongly (or at least I do) that "Saying nothing is an implicit condoning of matters".
edited 6th Apr '12 6:15:13 PM by Octo
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 FanficI thought Google specifically said outbound links were the problem?
In all honesty, I think it's crap. I'm just not sure if "it's crap" is reason enough to nuke it.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerHence why I said "Maybe we could also go beyond the current problems with Google" ;) Yes, outbound links are the current problem, and the one that needs to be fixed short term and in fact ASAP, but maybe we could ideally use this as an opportunity to take a good look at our wiki, what might be wrong it, and establish some standards? Not for Google's sake, but for our sake.
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 FanficPluralism is the societal ideal here as well. But pluralism is not the same as moral relativism. Liking MLP despite not being a little girl (and people accepting that) would be pluralism. Saying, basically, "all tropes are equal" is moral relativism. As I've said in the other thread, the biggest problem in this regard is IMO the "no negativity" rule...
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 FanficI think the no negativity rule is important because of Acceptable Targets works. Not so much about reprehensible things like Pokegirls, but works like The Inheritance Cycle, which everyone seems to think they're okay to bash because of their alleged poor quality.
I really think we need a disclaimer on the home page.
This wiki does not endorse the tropes it documents.
Dunno where that put would put crappy works though... :/
edited 6th Apr '12 6:26:36 PM by lu127
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerSnuff Films and Torture Porn(we have their definitions, and that's it) are the only thing we won't document of Works.
That's Word of God.
So no, we're not going to break a rule (No Negativity) because some people can't keep their opinions off the main pages. To put it bluntly, if you can't handle that, you shouldn't be editing then.
Quest 64 threadStill up to your old tricks, Hydronix...
Rules can be changed. And it's not about us or the readers, about who can "handle" that, it's about those abominations and the subhumans behind them. They should ideally be ignored and starved of reader/viewership. That's the point.
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 FanficWhat classes as Torture Porn? I mean what have a page on the moive Saw and that has a lot of Torture Porn in it.
hashtagsarestupidUmm, we have an entire page on what Torture Porn is, and we have stuff like Hostel...
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer![]()
I think something among the lines of Agony In Pink, where the entire thing is nothing by someone being tortured and killed.
It's all about the Readers here.
It's about the Editors following the rules to have the most informative website, not the most prudish one.
We are not going to prudify the website whatsoever. It's not an option at all. Clean up is fine, and that's all there is to it.
Pokegirls was cleaned up fine and it's a neutral page as is. Said by the Admin himself. Which just proves we can do it for all. I'm fine with keeping with the Wiki's goals.
The point of the No Negativity rule is to keep people from hating on stuff, regardless of what it is. It protects the entire website and every work. There are people who absolutely despite, for example(and this is true), Super Mario Bros and would vandalize the page. No Negativity prevents this problem.
It ain't to protect stuff people don't like, it's to protect against vandalism.
And what is wrong with having a neutral informational website? Sounds like the best thing for our readers.
Yes. That's something we're not supposed to trope anymore.
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Likewise on that.
Which means we got more things to get ready to cut.
edited 6th Apr '12 7:00:07 PM by Hydronix
Quest 64 threadSo, stuff like Agony In Pink is out?
No objections from me (although I admit I'm more than a little biased against them). If we can get Fast Eddie's reassurance that they are indeed off-limits, I'll go cutlisting crazy.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerWell, it should be.
I'd like to wait on his word before cutting any of that. It may have Grandfather Clause.
Quest 64 threadWOAHWOAHWOAHWOAH! I completely despise those... things... But Eddie hasn't said anything about cutting work pages, and that's by no means the course of action that has been taken so far.
edited 6th Apr '12 7:10:50 PM by Elbruno
"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."As I said, we need confirmation that that particular type of work is out. Then we can make the move.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerHe did say no Torture Porn. He has not specified if anything is allowed. It could be Fanfiction only(to cut).
As of right now, there is no cutting. At all. I wouldn't even say yet. Let's please wait before going cuthappy.
Quest 64 thread![]()
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Well, the ones posted are quiet blatantly Torture Porn, so we're just suggesting them in accordance with his statement of not documenting such things.
edited 6th Apr '12 7:14:02 PM by TheFoxsCloak
Eddie has been always against cutting work pages, as that goes against the site's goal of documenting fiction; the condition is that the whole thing has to be neutral. A decision like cutting works would need a damn good trigger.
"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."

Maybe we could also go beyond the current problems with Google and ask ourselves if we really want such crap on the wiki. The problem is not that readers stumbling over it may get offended; the problem is that we provide free advertisement to those scumbags.
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic