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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#601: Mar 7th 2012 at 1:54:53 PM

[up] Exactly what I was trying to get at. Thank you, Fighteer.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Firebert That One Guy from Somewhere in Illinois Since: Jan, 2001
That One Guy
#602: Mar 7th 2012 at 1:56:55 PM

Is there a reason we have this page? It doesn't even seem like it's a well-known thing, it's not a storytelling device, and it's horribly creepy/misogynistic.

edited 7th Mar '12 1:57:44 PM by Firebert

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#603: Mar 7th 2012 at 1:57:46 PM

Because it is a thing that exists and we define the term as a matter of reference. It is locked to prevent people adding examples or making the description gushy. If you find it creepy, that's because it is — but that has nothing to do with TV Tropes.

edited 7th Mar '12 1:58:32 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#604: Mar 7th 2012 at 1:59:41 PM

[up][up] I think that page is ok. It's a terrible type of video, but it exists in communities. Very sick communities.

I do recall the page was more critical in the past. We may want to revert it a bit.

edited 7th Mar '12 1:59:58 PM by lu127

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#605: Mar 7th 2012 at 1:59:45 PM

[up][up]That page is not actually locked. Not easy to tell from a mod console, is it?

edited 7th Mar '12 1:59:54 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
#606: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:02:48 PM

Is there a reason we have this page? It doesn't even seem like it's a well-known thing, it's not a storytelling device, and it's horribly creepy/misogynistic.

The same basic reason we have a page on Pokegirls.

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#607: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:04:26 PM

The page is locked. The page has always been locked. These are not the droids you're looking for.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#608: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:06:18 PM

Eddie just moved the note at the bottom to comment markup and presumably locked it.

Going to update Locked Pages.

ETA: And done. What droids are you meaning?

edited 7th Mar '12 2:07:37 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#609: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:06:29 PM

"The examples should be no more prurient than the source material."

Add ", and preferably less so" at the end, and that is perhaps our best overall standard.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#610: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:14:54 PM

[up][up] It's a Star Wars reference. I was joking about the fact that I'd just locked it.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#611: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:28:29 PM

@565: [awesome]

NPNP is an awesome title and I support it fully.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#612: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:28:36 PM

[up][up]Ah. Generally, I can't tell such jokes from first shot.

And more on-topic, should "No perversity" become "No creepiness" in the sandbox?

edited 7th Mar '12 2:28:46 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#613: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:30:16 PM

[up][up][up]And now you have just made poor mind-tricked Septimus very confused.

Seriously, Septimus, forget about the droids. The Empire isn't paying you enough for this crap.

edited 7th Mar '12 2:30:47 PM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
#614: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:37:48 PM

And more on-topic, should "No perversity" become "No creepiness" in the sandbox?

Eh, "no creepiness" sounds a bit too vague. I mean, creepiness can also involve scary things, in addition to the lewd stuff. "No perversity" gets to the point more effectively.

Edit: Fixed major typo.

edited 7th Mar '12 2:40:27 PM by Komodin

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#615: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:39:21 PM

[up]Agree to the last paragraph.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#616: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:48:37 PM

Shima, could you maybe trim that awful page down a little when you get the chance?

And I really don't know why we need to have it. I understand There Is No Such Thing As Notability, but we also don't discuss pedo-porn for a reason, right? Does "ryona" really deserve a page on our wiki? I came across that page through cross-wiking a while ago and was pretty disgusted. I was going to bring it up in this thread as something deserving of a cut but couldn't remember what it was called.

edited 7th Mar '12 2:49:18 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#618: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:57:33 PM

Yep, we document disgusting stuff. We don't endorse them.

Look at it this way: Seeing that page made me go "Wow, now that's something I'll be staying away from".

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#619: Mar 7th 2012 at 2:58:14 PM

[up][up]And I'd love to have it cut. Can't we have just one page on pedophilia that says, "In case you're not fully human, this shit is disgusting and we don't want any of it around here. No pages on anything related, please."

[up]True, but I would rather have never known it existed in the first place.

edited 7th Mar '12 2:58:38 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
#620: Mar 7th 2012 at 3:01:14 PM

Does "ryona" really deserve a page on our wiki?

Not really, but as long as it's here, we can make it so that we (the site) don't appear to endorse it, one way or the other.

edited 7th Mar '12 3:01:29 PM by Komodin

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#621: Mar 7th 2012 at 3:01:16 PM

And there are people who believe the same way about homosexuality. I think that we shouldn't be censoring things because that encourage censors to think they're right. I will trim the page and make it more neutral. The thing is, people know this stuff is bad and wrong. Getting worked up about it being bad and wrong makes us easier to troll.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower Since: Oct, 2009
Tsundere pet.
#622: Mar 7th 2012 at 3:03:28 PM

@617 & 619: Lolicon has been made into a trope for a character type, not the genre of material. Shotacon is still about the genre, if you need something to flame over.

Now, as an academically minded person, I could go into a long digression about how neither is necessarily an expression of pedophilia (there's some nice analysis on how Lolicon is frequently used to explore the fantasy of a sexual/romantic relationship without adult commitments, especially in Japan's "you are not a fully-qualified adult until you are married with kids" culture), but for the sake of not derailing, I won't.

edited 7th Mar '12 3:03:52 PM by lebrel

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#623: Mar 7th 2012 at 3:03:50 PM

We could always say how it's Sick and Wrong.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#624: Mar 7th 2012 at 3:05:27 PM

[up]I think it's better to leave our opinions about it off the pages - they're still opinions that aren't worth the trouble and troll- and apologist-baiting of posting them.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes Since: Apr, 2010
I'm an Irene!
#625: Mar 7th 2012 at 3:07:06 PM

Agreed with Septimus here.

The page is supposed to be neutral. And it does a fine job at being that. Like any other trope, it's supposed to simply state the facts. Which it does.

It's a common trope in fiction, and should be noted. No disgusting details are in there either, for that matter.

Likewise, having a trope page is not advocating it either. In fact, the page does nothing but suggest it's sick and wrong if anything at all.

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