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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#576: Mar 7th 2012 at 10:40:10 AM

"No Perversity, No Prudishness" has my vote.

[up] Speaking of Janitor, I do hope she's doing okay. We (the ordinary tropers, at least) haven't heard anything from her for a very long while...

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#577: Mar 7th 2012 at 10:48:21 AM

Also in favour of "No Perversity No Prudishness".

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#578: Mar 7th 2012 at 10:48:30 AM

She's just very, very busy. I'll let her know people are asking about her, though. Maybe we can roust her out the lab for a minute or two.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#579: Mar 7th 2012 at 10:56:20 AM

I've added a couple of lines to Sandbox.Dont Be Creepy to fit with the new title. Feel free to throw out any suggestions for things to add to the page.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#580: Mar 7th 2012 at 11:51:49 AM

If the sex and sexuality is an honest part of the work and relevant to the example, it belongs there.
I'd add "or trope" to the boldfaced part.

[up][up] This reminds me: Have you or Janitor ever thought of writing a brief history of how TV Tropes came to being, and major "milestones" in its life so far?

edited 7th Mar '12 11:53:20 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TheDarkEricDraven Since: Dec, 2010
#581: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:05:19 PM

Actually, how DID TV Tropes come to be? I just realized I didn't know how it started.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#582: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:07:54 PM

Some people from Buffistas.org, if I recall correctly.

Yes, we need a history of TV Tropes. No, it's not the topic of this thread.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#583: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:13:28 PM

It's been put out there before. Not here but you can find several links to relevant articles on Notable References To TV Tropes.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#584: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:16:58 PM

In addition to the specific No Prudishness section, the No Perversity half explicitly says

Merely being about something sexual or potentially sexual does not make an example or a trope creepy.

edited 7th Mar '12 12:17:24 PM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Katrika Since: Jul, 2009
#586: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:32:20 PM

Definitely go with No Perversity No Prudishness.

edited 7th Mar '12 12:32:43 PM by Katrika

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#587: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:32:57 PM

I think the best standard to avoid creepiness is "what is appropriate for a page, or for relevant parts of an example".

It's not prudishness to remove any sexual comment for a page like Veggie Tales. That's not a work that would have it. But it would be prudish to remove mentions of sexual content on a page like Playboy.

But examples also matter. If a trope wasn't about sex, but somehow an example involved sex in a way relevant to the trope, it would be appropriate, as long as it was written in a neutral way.

edited 7th Mar '12 12:33:14 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#588: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:45:47 PM

^ It would depend on the nature of the sexual content on the Playboy page, though I guess that goes without saying.

I'm a little apprehensive that No Perversity No Prudishness is going to encourage a mindset of "How dare you delete my example about children's panties you bunch of prudes it was not perverted it was freaken needed," but that won't be a problem so long as the guidelines are clear and we stick to them.

edited 7th Mar '12 12:47:24 PM by BobbyG

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#589: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:47:42 PM

[up]That makes me think of No Creepiness No Prudishness.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
animeg3282 Since: Jan, 2001
#590: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:47:46 PM

I think it's pretty clear that just the facts is OK, and that really, we don't need all the gory details of Rin-chan's disgusting dream sequence.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#591: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:48:35 PM

[up][up][up] Well, the good news is that if someone puts in an entry like that, we can justify banning them without any feathers getting ruffled — except theirs, of course, which is not a concern.

edited 7th Mar '12 12:48:46 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#592: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:48:57 PM

[up][up][up]That's why I wrote "mentions of sexual content".

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#593: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:49:11 PM

I think it would also depend on the Veggie Tales example. As it has rather graphic source material (The Bible can get pretty racy) there's a lot of adaptational tropes there that involve toning down those racy bit and those often times require discussing sexual material as it's the most likely to be changed.

It's something you have to keep in mind.

edited 7th Mar '12 12:49:43 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#594: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:51:05 PM

The examples should be no more prurient than the source material. For obvious reasons, it's better in many cases that they be less, but certainly there is no point in discussing sexual topics in regards to material clearly aimed at kids unless said material directly addresses them.

edited 7th Mar '12 12:51:16 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#595: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:51:33 PM

^^^^ Agreed, Fighteer. I think what we have at Sandbox.Dont Be Creepy at the moment is pretty good.

@ Shima: But if the sexual material isn't in Veggie Tales (and it isn't) it doesn't need to be referenced on the page, does it? I presume that page isn't behind the Google veil.

Ninja'd. Yeah, what Fighteer said.

edited 7th Mar '12 12:52:10 PM by BobbyG

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#596: Mar 7th 2012 at 12:58:30 PM

Not explicitly, no, but there are ways to write about adaptational censorship without being racy. But if someone writes:

You don't delete that because you know that his original crime was rape.

edited 7th Mar '12 1:00:39 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#597: Mar 7th 2012 at 1:19:15 PM

Well, sure, mentioning that the source material contained rape and it was Disneyfied is hardly prurient.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#598: Mar 7th 2012 at 1:19:44 PM

I think having clear guidelines is better for avoiding undesired outcomes, and having recourse when they do happen, that the name. If we have a whole page setting out what it is, that's more important than whether we call it "perversion" or "creepiness" or "Aethelread" (though the last is ill-advised).

That said, I don't love how on the wiki as a whole "perversion" has come to be understood as "sexual in any way," when it means something narrower in the real world.

edited 7th Mar '12 2:30:19 PM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#599: Mar 7th 2012 at 1:21:37 PM

I mostly prefer No Creepiness No Prudishness because "perversion" to me says something different than "creepy stuff", and not sexual stuff or even orifices and co either.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#600: Mar 7th 2012 at 1:25:49 PM

Well, let's look at it this way.

  • Sleeping Beauty was much Lighter and Softer than its original version, in which the prince raped the comatose Beauty, and she didn't wake up until one of the children she bore suckled the poisoned thorn from her finger.

That's factual. It's not prurient or perverse to any greater degree than the material it's taken from. Take this one, though:

  • Sleeping Beauty was much Lighter and Softer than its original version, in which the prince raped the comatose Beauty (can you blame him?) and she didn't wake up until one of the children she bore suckled the poisoned thorn from her finger. This sort of thing was hardly unusual for the time and was unfortunately Disneyfied for the sensitive little modern kiddies.

The difference here is that there's editorializing and, well, drooling over the rape part. This is not acceptable.

We can state the facts pertinent to the example without making it look like the wiki endorses them.

edited 7th Mar '12 1:35:15 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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