TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

What the Bible Says

Go To

setnakhte That's terrifying. from inside your closet Since: Nov, 2010
That's terrifying.
#401: Mar 13th 2012 at 7:01:25 PM

[up][up]Who said anything about that? Also, it's quite easy to believe that someone was a wise man with good lessons to teach without believing that they were divine in origin.

"Roll for whores."
Muramasan13 Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Not war
#402: Mar 13th 2012 at 7:03:09 PM

It's hard to call someone wise when he's busy calling himself God.

I realize we can't discount his teachings based on this alone; that'd be a fallacy. I'm just pointing out that if Jesus was not divine, he was a madman.

As for who said anything about believing in some parts of the Bible without believing in Jesus's divinity: Boredman did, given his apparent view that the Bible isn't divinely inspired.

edited 13th Mar '12 7:06:15 PM by Muramasan13

Smile for me!
setnakhte That's terrifying. from inside your closet Since: Nov, 2010
That's terrifying.
#403: Mar 13th 2012 at 7:06:14 PM

[up]Wise men and Mad men are often indistinguishable.

"Roll for whores."
Muramasan13 Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Not war
#404: Mar 13th 2012 at 7:06:29 PM

Citation needed.

Smile for me!
setnakhte That's terrifying. from inside your closet Since: Nov, 2010
That's terrifying.
#405: Mar 13th 2012 at 7:10:13 PM

Diogenes of Sinope.

"Roll for whores."
Muramasan13 Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Not war
#406: Mar 13th 2012 at 7:34:01 PM

On the contrary, Diogenes was exceptionally rational- he simply chose to teach people rationality and provoke thought in others by by acting in strange ways, then loudly justifying his behaviors to passersby. An illustrative, historical story:

When asked how he (Diogenes) wished to be buried, he left instructions to be thrown outside the city wall so wild animals could feast on his body. When asked if he minded this, he said, "Not at all, as long as you provide me with a stick to chase the creatures away!" When asked how he could use the stick since he would lack awareness, he replied "If I lack awareness, then why should I care what happens to me when I am dead?"

Jesus, on the other hand, claimed to be the Son of God and stuck to his story even when it was clear that it would lead to his death. If he was not truly the Son of God, then this is in no wise the behavior of a wise man.

edited 13th Mar '12 7:34:24 PM by Muramasan13

Smile for me!
setnakhte That's terrifying. from inside your closet Since: Nov, 2010
That's terrifying.
#407: Mar 13th 2012 at 7:37:10 PM

[up]I never said he wasn't rational or intelligent, just that he was a few eggs short of a basket.

"Roll for whores."
Muramasan13 Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Not war
#408: Mar 13th 2012 at 7:43:22 PM

I would say that claiming to be divine, even when repenting of that claim could have spared him an impending, agonizing, drawn-out public death is not behavior typical of a wise man, regardless of how strange some wise men may appear to some people.

Smile for me!
setnakhte That's terrifying. from inside your closet Since: Nov, 2010
That's terrifying.
#409: Mar 13th 2012 at 7:47:03 PM

[up]Atypical yes, but not an indictment. We all have our delusions. Mine do not prevent me from obtaining wisdom nor yours you.

"Roll for whores."
Vericrat Like this, but brown. from .0000001 seconds ago Since: Oct, 2011
Like this, but brown.
#410: Mar 13th 2012 at 8:07:14 PM

@Mura: What's confusing to me is that certain parts of the Bible tend to be discounted as obviously immoral or false, but others are not. Discounting any part of the Bible based on an outside subjective standard opens any part of the Bible up to the same sort of examination.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.
Muramasan13 Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Not war
#411: Mar 13th 2012 at 8:16:45 PM

Yes! That's what I was trying to say on the previous page in a nutshell.

You are, no pun intended, preaching to the choir here.

Smile for me!
Boredman from the divided circus tent of america (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#412: Mar 13th 2012 at 8:33:56 PM

I didn't say that the Bible wasn't divinely inspired. I just said that it was physically written down by men, unless you think that God just poofed the first Bible into existence. Humans are fallible, even if they are following the divine.

edited 13th Mar '12 8:35:47 PM by Boredman

Vericrat Like this, but brown. from .0000001 seconds ago Since: Oct, 2011
Like this, but brown.
#413: Mar 13th 2012 at 8:42:06 PM

[up][up]The problem is that both choices should seem equally unpalatable to believers.

If, for instance, I want to say, "Well, no outside standard of review - the Bible is the only authority," then I must accept discrimination against women, a murderous God, and the tacit acceptance of slavery.

If, on the other hand, I declare those things to be abhorrent, then I am using an outside standard to declare them to be so, and then could do so with regard to things like nonbelievers (or anyone, really) burning in hell, or discrimination against homosexuals, or other things that mainstream Christianity seems to accept.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.
Treblain Not An Avatar Since: Nov, 2012
Not An Avatar
#414: Mar 13th 2012 at 9:24:29 PM

Christian ethics doesn't really come directly from the Bible, except for recent fundamentalists. Mainstream Catholic ethics is drawn from Thomas Aquinas and natural law, all under the assumption that God created a universe with rules that can be derived from the existence of an ordered world.

If you assume Christians accept no morals authority but the Bible, you're setting up a strawman to beat up.

We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
Vericrat Like this, but brown. from .0000001 seconds ago Since: Oct, 2011
Like this, but brown.
#415: Mar 13th 2012 at 9:38:38 PM

If you assume Christians accept no morals authority but the Bible, you're setting up a strawman to beat up.

I merely presented that as one of two possible options. If Christian ethics derived from natural law can declare immoral what God does or dictates in the Bible, then I see no reason not to extend that to passages outside what the mainstream is willing to overlook.

Again, my point is that if you have an outside system of ethics that can be applied against the Bible, that system applies equally to forced rapist marriage and the concept of nonbelievers being tortured for eternity.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.
feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#416: Mar 14th 2012 at 12:04:54 AM

^ Hell isn't in the Bible. "Turn the other cheek" is. I don't believe in Hell, but I do believe in nonaggression.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#417: Mar 14th 2012 at 11:05:03 AM

It all depends on what your "outside standard of measurement" is. If this standard also comes from God, which nearly all of us believe, then we are obligated to try and use it, even, perhaps especially, when it appears to conflict with other sources of truth and goodness. "Natural Law" is one such source, so is one's own conscience. When these three disagree, we are forced to undertake some very hard thinking. Which is probably the whole point. "He who has ears, let him hear." I don't pretend to understand God's plan, if he has one, but it seemingly has something to do with learning to deal with uncertainty. Wisdom begins by acknowledging that some problems have no simple objective solution.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
MasterInferno It's Like Arguing on the Internet from Tomb of Malevolence Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
It's Like Arguing on the Internet
#418: Mar 14th 2012 at 12:01:59 PM

[up][up]"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." —Matthew 5:29-30

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: 'If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.'" —Revelation 14:9-11

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." —Revelation 20:10

"Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." —Revelation 20:15

Yes, Hell is in the Bible.

Somehow you know that the time is right.
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#419: Mar 14th 2012 at 2:01:24 PM

Simple truth, we will never get all of Christianity to agree on a specific translation of the bible, let alone how to interprete it.

So with that in mind, I can only wish more Christians will have a working capability of Koine Greek and Aramaic.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#420: Mar 14th 2012 at 2:31:13 PM

[up][up] The NT made extensive use of existing Greek/Roman concepts of the afterlife (mostly Hades, Tartarus popped up once or twice) — probably to relate to the Roman populace better — or an actual place outside Jerusalem (Gehenna — the Valley of Hinnom). They were all translated wholesale as "hell" later on.

That's one of the reasons the Bible has to be read with a critical eye. It was written by people with motives, and has been dubiously translated even more often by people with motives, often as they were coming into power and had reasons to make things more authoritarian. That said, it can't really be discounted any more easily than anything else written by man, because all of it is written by people with motives.

edited 14th Mar '12 2:40:27 PM by Pykrete

Qeise Professional Smartass from sqrt(-inf)/0 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Professional Smartass
#421: Mar 14th 2012 at 4:43:29 PM

So the Bible is just another collection of books promoting peace, love and genocide. One could get a different impression from how some other people talk about it.

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#422: Mar 14th 2012 at 6:25:53 PM

Yeah, it's just nothing more than simply one of the greatest works of art ever written. No biggie.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#423: Mar 14th 2012 at 8:11:00 PM

So is Beowulf, The Epic of Gilgamesh (it was the Babylonian hell the Christians adopted), and the Code of Hammurabi. But I don't see people using these texts to justify hate and violence to others with the same zeal that the opposition teaches love and tolerance.

edited 14th Mar '12 8:12:16 PM by Gabrael

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#424: Mar 14th 2012 at 8:14:54 PM

Um...Beowulf and the Epic of Gilgamesh were celebrations of nightmarishly violent and belligerent cultures, thus perpetuating them.

MasterInferno It's Like Arguing on the Internet from Tomb of Malevolence Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
It's Like Arguing on the Internet
#425: Mar 14th 2012 at 9:42:10 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]I'm aware of that, but my point still stands: the idea that Hell as is commonly understood nowadays (i.e. punishment after death) is never mentioned in the Bible is patently false.

Somehow you know that the time is right.

Total posts: 795
Top