Definitely a misleading name. Also seems like a clone of Decoy Protagonist.
This is not a problem. We have identified many tropes that aren't really talked about all that much outside this site, and even if they are, there often isn't a definition or term for the trope until we come up with it. It doesn't matter if the term isn't used anywhere else.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.IIRC, it was originally in YKTTW about how a strong female character would be quickly demoted to make room for the male hero, but was expanded to the gender-neutral version. It was also more focused on mentors before, which is why it was snowcloned off The Obi-Wan.
Since it's no longer mentor-focused and the snowclone is misleading, this should probably be renamed.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.It does matter, but in the opposite way: if it is an established term, then that's a reason for us to use the same name. So pointing out whether or not something is a commonly-used term outside TVT is relevant.
Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!If I remember the original YKTTW correctly, The Obi-Wrong was a response to the Quickly-Demoted Woman. I think the point of the trope was that someone highly skilled and competent, who should have been a mentor figure, or a superior, is demoted to the hero's lackey. Hence, instead of being The Obi-Wan, they're the The Obi-Wrong.
I think the only problems in the article are the lines that say that this person should be the main character. Logically, you'd expect them to be the boss of the main character, but they get demoted in order to prove how awesome the protagonist is.
edited 23rd Feb '12 4:52:39 PM by FantiSci
Oh ye Internet gods, Quickly-Demoted Woman is a natter and bitch fest.
edited 23rd Feb '12 6:10:44 PM by ccoa
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.(chuckle) I originally wrote the thing. I think my sarcasm mode was stuck on high that day. Give me a day or two and I'll neutralise it out. The main idea of the trope still stands though.
The Obi-Wrong is supposed to refer to gender neutral instances of the Quickly-Demoted Woman, but its mission statement appears to have gotten a little confused. I'd be inclined to clean up the examples and the article a little, rather than rearrange the name.
edited 23rd Feb '12 6:18:30 PM by FantiSci
Since the trope isn't related to The Obi-Wan (and Kenobi is not an example) the name is still wrong.
Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!Character established as a powerful character, but then immediately made to serve under the hero/is overshadowed by the hero (20)
- Ar Tonelico 2
- Bleach
- Dragon Age II – Non-Playable Characters
- Final Fantasy Tactics A2
- Final Fantasy VII
- Final Fantasy X (implies that The Obi-Wrong is a version of The Obi-Wan that has failed at some point)
- Final Fantasy X (same as the above example)
- Fire Emblem
- Koe de Oshigoto!
- Lufia
- Mass Effect 1 Antagonists And Npcs
- Power Rangers Time Force (Aversion)
- Power Rangers Time Force (same as above example)
- Quickly-Demoted Woman
- Sakura Taisen
- Student–Master Team
- The Game
- The Obi-Wan
- The Obi Wrong
- Wild AR Ms 3
Other (9)
- Ace Attorney (mentors end up dead or a victim of horrible circumstances etc.)
- Chalion (Mentor type character has a Dark and Troubled Past)
- Jedi Academy Trilogy (considered to be played straight because the mentor character in question dies)
- Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha (character no longer has anything to teach the protagonist)
- Depending on the Writer (The Obi-Wrong considered the negative/opposite version of The Obi-Wan)
- New Jedi Order (The Obi-Wrong considered the negative/opposite version of The Obi-Wan)
- Psychonauts (Mentor character, but no evidence of demotion)
- Shaolin Soccer (Character is already disabled and disgraced before the protagonist meets him)
- The Magnificent (Mentor character, no real sign of demotion)
Unclear/Little Context (7)
- Bakuryuu Sentai Abaranger
- Ex Machina
- Final Fantasy VIII (character instructs the main protagonist, but it is unclear if she is portrayed as stronger than him)
- Final Fantasy VIII (Same as above example)
- Lufia 2 Rise Of The Sinistrals
- Power Rangers SPD (Seems correct)
- Power Rangers Wild Force (Seems correct)
Index/Trope (7)
- Characters as Device
- Example as a Thesis
- Just For Pun
- Mentors (Implies that this trope is just about mentors)
- The Obi-Wrong
- Quickly Demoted Mentor
- Spell My Name with a "The" (In a list of tropes with "The" in their names)
I am not sure if this wick check helps much given, but given the amount of confusion and/or misuse of the trope as a certain kind of The Obi-Wan, I am guessing that a rename might be a good idea. Feel free to check my work though because I thought it was kind of difficult to figure out what a lot of the examples were actually trying to describe.
That being the case, there is now a single proposition rename crowner for this trope here.
edited 28th Feb '12 9:35:40 PM by LouieW
"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 dCrowner hooked.
...And called.
Ninja'd you.
edited 11th Mar '12 12:05:49 PM by BestOf
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.Whoops, looked like someone called it.
edited 11th Mar '12 12:05:36 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickAlt-name suggestions? We don't want to rename it to ... nothing.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanSomething along the lines of Demoted To Lackey or Demoted Mentor?
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.There is now an alternative titles crowner for this trope here. Feel free to add names as you see fit.
"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 dCrowner swapped.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.Bump for votes.
Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!Bumping for more votes.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.Calling crowner.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerRename done with all the details.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Crown Description:
Vote up for yes, down for no.
Okay, so what exactly is an Obi Wrong? Since it's a Snow Clone of The Obi-Wan, I would expect it to be a mentor figure who teaches the wrong things, or somebody who claims to be a mentor but isn't.
But no. The trope is about somebody who is "established as a powerful character, but then immediately made to serve under the hero". That's not at all clear from the title. More to the point, Obi Wan is not an example. Certainly in the original trilogy he's not; he is listed as a "technical" example for the prequel trilogy, but he doesn't at any point serve under Anakin.
45 wicks, 21 inbounds, and according to google nobody uses this term except for us. Also, several of the examples listed here really belong under The Obi-Wan instead. Yeah, something is wrong with this trope page.
Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!