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Ambiguous Name: The Obi Wrong

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Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#1: Feb 23rd 2012 at 2:35:55 PM

Okay, so what exactly is an Obi Wrong? Since it's a Snow Clone of The Obi-Wan, I would expect it to be a mentor figure who teaches the wrong things, or somebody who claims to be a mentor but isn't.

But no. The trope is about somebody who is "established as a powerful character, but then immediately made to serve under the hero". That's not at all clear from the title. More to the point, Obi Wan is not an example. Certainly in the original trilogy he's not; he is listed as a "technical" example for the prequel trilogy, but he doesn't at any point serve under Anakin.

45 wicks, 21 inbounds, and according to google nobody uses this term except for us. Also, several of the examples listed here really belong under The Obi-Wan instead. Yeah, something is wrong with this trope page.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
KaiserMazoku Since: Apr, 2011
#2: Feb 23rd 2012 at 3:01:36 PM

Definitely a misleading name. Also seems like a clone of Decoy Protagonist.

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#3: Feb 23rd 2012 at 3:37:09 PM

according to google nobody uses this term except for us.

This is not a problem. We have identified many tropes that aren't really talked about all that much outside this site, and even if they are, there often isn't a definition or term for the trope until we come up with it. It doesn't matter if the term isn't used anywhere else.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#4: Feb 23rd 2012 at 3:38:52 PM

IIRC, it was originally in YKTTW about how a strong female character would be quickly demoted to make room for the male hero, but was expanded to the gender-neutral version. It was also more focused on mentors before, which is why it was snowcloned off The Obi-Wan.

Since it's no longer mentor-focused and the snowclone is misleading, this should probably be renamed.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#5: Feb 23rd 2012 at 3:56:59 PM

[up][up] It does matter, but in the opposite way: if it is an established term, then that's a reason for us to use the same name. So pointing out whether or not something is a commonly-used term outside TVT is relevant.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
FantiSci Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Feb 23rd 2012 at 4:52:18 PM

If I remember the original YKTTW correctly, The Obi-Wrong was a response to the Quickly-Demoted Woman. I think the point of the trope was that someone highly skilled and competent, who should have been a mentor figure, or a superior, is demoted to the hero's lackey. Hence, instead of being The Obi-Wan, they're the The Obi-Wrong.

I think the only problems in the article are the lines that say that this person should be the main character. Logically, you'd expect them to be the boss of the main character, but they get demoted in order to prove how awesome the protagonist is.

edited 23rd Feb '12 4:52:39 PM by FantiSci

ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#7: Feb 23rd 2012 at 6:10:29 PM

Oh ye Internet gods, Quickly-Demoted Woman is a natter and bitch fest.

edited 23rd Feb '12 6:10:44 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
FantiSci Since: Jan, 2001
#8: Feb 23rd 2012 at 6:18:14 PM

(chuckle) I originally wrote the thing. I think my sarcasm mode was stuck on high that day. Give me a day or two and I'll neutralise it out. The main idea of the trope still stands though.

The Obi-Wrong is supposed to refer to gender neutral instances of the Quickly-Demoted Woman, but its mission statement appears to have gotten a little confused. I'd be inclined to clean up the examples and the article a little, rather than rearrange the name.

edited 23rd Feb '12 6:18:30 PM by FantiSci

Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#9: Feb 24th 2012 at 9:37:53 AM

[up] Since the trope isn't related to The Obi-Wan (and Kenobi is not an example) the name is still wrong.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
LouieW Loser from Babycowland Since: Aug, 2009
Loser
#10: Feb 28th 2012 at 9:33:25 PM

Character established as a powerful character, but then immediately made to serve under the hero/is overshadowed by the hero (20)

Other (9)

Unclear/Little Context (7)

Index/Trope (7)

I am not sure if this wick check helps much given, but given the amount of confusion and/or misuse of the trope as a certain kind of The Obi-Wan, I am guessing that a rename might be a good idea. Feel free to check my work though because I thought it was kind of difficult to figure out what a lot of the examples were actually trying to describe.

That being the case, there is now a single proposition rename crowner for this trope here.

edited 28th Feb '12 9:35:40 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#11: Mar 6th 2012 at 11:48:38 AM

Crowner hooked.

...And called.

[down]Ninja'd you.

edited 11th Mar '12 12:05:49 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#12: Mar 11th 2012 at 12:05:19 PM

Whoops, looked like someone called it.

edited 11th Mar '12 12:05:36 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#13: Mar 11th 2012 at 2:49:49 PM

Alt-name suggestions? We don't want to rename it to ... nothing.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
LouieW Loser from Babycowland Since: Aug, 2009
Loser
#15: Mar 13th 2012 at 8:46:52 AM

There is now an alternative titles crowner for this trope here. Feel free to add names as you see fit.

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#16: Mar 13th 2012 at 8:57:10 AM

Crowner swapped.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#17: Apr 3rd 2012 at 12:44:22 PM

Bump for votes.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#18: Apr 16th 2012 at 7:25:59 AM

Bumping for more votes.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#19: May 17th 2012 at 2:45:25 AM

Calling crowner.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#20: Jun 20th 2012 at 4:18:03 AM

[up]Rename done with all the details.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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SingleProposition: TheObiWrong
28th Feb '12 9:31:51 PM

Crown Description:

Vote up for yes, down for no.

Total posts: 20
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