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NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Meh-meh!?
Jan 14th 2020 at 9:35:02 AM

In theory the intention of two versions is to facilitate trading; in theory because newer games tend to have things in place that indeed cajole people into double dipping (like only-obtainable-once legendaries, or only being able to breed specific Pokémon in one version of the game because their stats are completely different when hatched in the other version of the game).

On the bright side, the DLC is technically optional and people without it can still trade for everything to get a complete Poké Dex, which is a good decision that placates anyone that would otherwise be unable to keep up with the multiplayer aspects of the game.

On the downside, I do want to call out the fact that Apricots are DLC since the Poké Balls you make using them are artificially scarce in the main game, so it runs into the whole "sell the solution to the problem they created" issue.

she/her
VampireBuddha Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline from Ireland Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline
Jan 14th 2020 at 9:42:19 AM

Am I the only person who only bought one of a Pokémon generation and traded with people who owned the other version to catch 'em all?

[up][nja] Ah, I haven't played a Pokémon game since Silver, what sort of things have the newer ones done?

Edited by VampireBuddha on Jan 14th 2020 at 5:43:51 PM

Dude... you ever notice that, like, stuff, man?
ShinyCottonCandy Cheatza Cheatza from Free Country, USA Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Cheatza Cheatza
Jan 14th 2020 at 9:49:49 AM

Mostly just the mascot legendaries are impossible to trade for, unless you know someone IRL, so that leaves a blank spot in completion, but there are multiple minor issues that don’t affect me personally, but still really shouldn’t be a problem like limiting supply of certain types of Poké balls.

I need to think of a better signature.
Ghilz Fight It Out! from The Moon, Or Canada Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fight It Out!
Jan 14th 2020 at 10:34:33 AM

In theory the intention of two versions is to facilitate trading; in theory because newer games tend to have things in place that indeed cajole people into double dipping (like only-obtainable-once legendaries, or only being able to breed specific Pokémon in one version of the game because their stats are completely different when hatched in the other version of the game).

On the bright side, the DLC is technically optional and people without it can still trade for everything to get a complete Poké Dex, which is a good decision that placates anyone that would otherwise be unable to keep up with the multiplayer aspects of the game.

None of that requires 2 games. You can easily make this a mode or an option the players select (doubly so in the original game where maintaining a pool of players online isn't a concern). Heck, select the pool of available pokemon based on the starter chosen. Done. And of course, that's without going to how as far back as gen3 you needed like 6 games to get all Pokemons.

The intention never was to facilitate trading. It's always been to get people to double dip. They release two version, and make the catchphrase "Gotta catch em all" (not gotta trade em' all) for pete's sake. The trading or "encouraging to play with friends" bit has never been more than an excuse to paper over that.

Edited by Ghilz on Jan 14th 2020 at 1:40:39 PM

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jan 14th 2020 at 11:04:19 AM

The answer to the question, "Why multiple versions of each game?" is always greed.

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MJTrooper The Neutral One from California
The Neutral One
Jan 14th 2020 at 11:29:46 AM

Pokémon Sun and Moon did address the version exclusive legendary issue by making it possible to obtain multiple copies of them, so you can trade the extra one for the other game's exclusive. I don't know if Sword and Shield did anything similar, though.

Personally, I'd prefer if the 'net was a little friendlier, but you know the GIFT...
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Exposition Dragon
Jan 14th 2020 at 11:47:54 AM

Okay, but does the DLC include a trade server?

Because I'm cool with practically everything else about Sword and Shield. I'm even cool with having DLC, since it's actually an improvement over the old "Buy the third edition of the game full-price that has all the same stuff but a little bit more, and then play through it from the beginning again!" model.

But eliminating the GTS is a baffling decision. Pokemon went back to the "find a random person and just hope for the best" method of getting Pokemon you wanted via trade or unlocking trade-exclusive evolutions for some reason.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 14th 2020 at 12:49:37 PM

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
RainingMetal from Eagleland Canada Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Jan 14th 2020 at 12:08:43 PM

Sigh. If anything they should have removed the Wonder Trade mechanic, because people are always selfish and will dump Com Mons in the hopes of getting something better. There was no reason to get rid of the GTS deposit system whatsoever.

Waifu fans need a life(u).
ShinyCottonCandy Cheatza Cheatza from Free Country, USA Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Cheatza Cheatza
Jan 14th 2020 at 12:36:40 PM

[up][up]Supposedly, it’s coming with Pokémon Home, but no one I’ve seem claiming that gives me confidence that it’s more than speculation on their part.

I need to think of a better signature.
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Exposition Dragon
Jan 14th 2020 at 1:30:59 PM

Sigh. If anything they should have removed the Wonder Trade mechanic, because people are always selfish and will dump Com Mons in the hopes of getting something better. There was no reason to get rid of the GTS deposit system whatsoever.

The problem is twofold.

  1. Newer players dumping Com Mons into Wonder Trade to try and get a better mon.
  2. Older players getting Com Mons from Wonder Trade and then putting them back in to try again for something else.

If people are constantly depositing Com Mons into Wonder Trade but no one is ever withdrawing Com Mons from Wonder Trade, then the population of Com Mons only grows and never stabilizes or diminishes. Thus, the system gets worse over time.

As a public service, when I'm breeding mons for IVs, I'll put breeding rejects into Wonder Trade and try to find Com Mons. If I get something cool that I feel I can use, I'll keep it, but if I don't need it, I'll put it back in and try again for Com Mons. Then I release all the Com Mons I've gotten, erasing that batch of Com Mons from the Wonder Trade network forever.

I think everyone who breeds Pokemon should get in the habit of doing this. Someone has to clear out the clutter from the system.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 14th 2020 at 2:34:27 AM

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
Ghilz Fight It Out! from The Moon, Or Canada Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fight It Out!
Jan 14th 2020 at 1:33:31 PM

No. some people just want to see the trade table fill up with zubats.

RainingMetal from Eagleland Canada Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Jan 14th 2020 at 2:38:10 PM

It's why Wonder Trade is a mistake, and anyone who laments its removal simply doesn't exist.

Waifu fans need a life(u).
Anura Resist from England Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Resist
Jan 14th 2020 at 2:51:59 PM

I keep whatever I get. It’s another ticket for the ID lottery.

Optimism through stalwart scepticism is a defect not everyone is lucky enough to be cursed with.
RainingMetal from Eagleland Canada Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Jan 14th 2020 at 3:21:05 PM

I trade for the whole Pokedex that isn't legendary for the same reason, but I don't keep needless duplicates that clog up my PC.

Waifu fans need a life(u).
Jan 14th 2020 at 7:36:33 PM

Pokemon's business model has always been bad, but you used to be able to get a complete experience for the price of one ($40!) game if you waited a year or two. Now you need the base game, DLC, a NSO subscription, and a Home subscription

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:17:31 PM

It costs an awful lot of money to develop no new concepts or gameplay whatsoever, just repackage them every few years with a few graphical upgrades and a handful of new Pokemon.

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slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:21:24 PM

I think this video about Blastoise summarizes the problem with Pokémon.

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.
Steven The Nu Mou Enthusiast from The Room Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
The Nu Mou Enthusiast
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:55:06 PM

Geez, Gamefreak so lazy that the iconic turtle shoots water in front of his face.

Something something thoughts and prayers
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas
Professional Forum Ninja
Jan 15th 2020 at 12:01:20 AM

Going to add to Jim's argument, starting with Gen 2, there has never been a set of games where you have been able to get the full Pokedex. You have either needed to trade with other people, buy things like the remakes or third versions, or bring them up from past Pokemon games to even get the full Pokedex on a single save.

Just as a couple of examples:

  1. Glameow and its evolution Purugly are only found naturally in the wild in Pearl. In Gen 5 and 6, you can only find it in random in-game events, and they are completely unavailable in Gen 7 and (at this time) Gen 8. As an aside, series mascot Pikachu was completely unavalible in Gen 5 naturally.

  2. The 3DS games didn't have any patches to allow for changes brought to new games to be compatible with older ones. While this wasn't bad with Gen 6 because the only major issue was Megas, Ultra Sun/Moon had all new Ultra Beasts, so in order to complete the dex then, you had to buy the them.

[up] When you have 895 individual models to design, you end up finding ways to cut in battle.

[up][up][up] Pokemon, I would say, is one of those series where the gameplay is "if it ain't broke," and there was some legitimate improvements to the series during gens 2 through 4. What makes it egregious is that Pokemon has many more games in the series. Out of the 23 years Pokemon has been around, 7 of those have not had a Pokemon game if you just count the initial launches. That shrinks down to 2 if you count in the various localizations prior to the series going for worldwide launches.

So I'll make a resolution, that I'll never make another one, just enjoy this ride on my trip around the sun, until its done.
Jan 15th 2020 at 3:11:39 AM

You'd figure the starters would get special treatment at least.

Cinderace certainly does for its signature move.

Kayeka World's biggest wannabe from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Jan 15th 2020 at 3:15:04 AM

Yes, but Cinderace is the Fire starter. Everyone knows that the Fire starter is the coolest, and thus deserves the most special attention.

People say I have a problem with authority. I say that authority has a problem with me.
Jan 15th 2020 at 3:16:14 AM

as long as it's signature move only [lol]

Ghilz Fight It Out! from The Moon, Or Canada Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fight It Out!
Jan 15th 2020 at 5:14:57 AM

Inteleon also does his signature move properly (firing water his fingers while doing a finger gun)

TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Exposition Dragon
Jan 15th 2020 at 7:16:05 AM

Yeah, I've noticed that most Pokemon generally have one animation for physical moves, one animation for special moves, and then each move has its own animation that emerges from those animations to make it look kinda sorta like the Pokemon is doing individual unique attacks.

And then maybe a couple others if you're lucky.

Sometimes it works. Sometimes it's a complete trainwreck of an animation.

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
Weirdguy149 Your worst nightmare from The back of your mind Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Your worst nightmare
Jan 15th 2020 at 7:19:55 AM

And then you have the Z moves where Pokemon run without moving their limbs.

It’s me. Huh huh huh huh...

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