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raziel365 Anka Aquila from Lima, Perú Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
Dec 28th 2019 at 5:21:28 PM

If we keep this comparison, then Bethesda should be aware that healthy food is coming to vogue and the moment it becomes as cheap as junk food their business is done.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, maybe we should try to find the absolutes that tie us.
MJTrooper The Neutral One from California
The Neutral One
Dec 28th 2019 at 7:23:43 PM

To complete the fast food metaphor, Fallout 76 is what happens when you take away everything that makes junk food taste good, while somehow making it even less healthy.

Personally, I'd prefer if the 'net was a little friendlier, but you know the GIFT...
CryoJNik from Somewhere rolling my eyes Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Dec 28th 2019 at 7:24:55 PM

Yeah that's not happening until they stop making the healthy stuff so much more expensive than the unhealthy crap because it's 'in vogue'

I find it ironic that a show with the message "Keep moving Forward" has a fanbase adamantly stuck on past missteps.
Emptyeye R Lee Ermey Looks At YOU
R Lee Ermey Looks At YOU
Dec 28th 2019 at 8:15:01 PM

Beth's problem is that they expected to get by putting the minimal amount of effort into their games,they're effectively like a fast food joint in that regard,there's places that serve better food but Beth doesn't care,they know people always want to eat something,and it doesn't matter what they're eating so long as it tastes nice and they can afford it

I don't even know if I'd go that far, necessarily. I think it's more that for a long time, what Bethesda did well, they did best-in-class-by-a-mile, such that people put up with a lot of the janky tech and bugs as the necessary trade-off for the good stuff (Seriously, "Bethesda games are buggy messes" goes back to at least 1996's Daggerfall; this isn't exactly a new thing for them.), or just modded out said jank themselves. But as other companies have nearly caught up with Bethesda (Or even surpassed them) on their good stuff, without said jank, people are now realizing "Wait, is the bad stuff a necessary evil for the good stuff?" And as already mentioned, Fallout 76 is just "Bad Bethesda without Good Bethesda to make you forget about Bad Bethesda").

Either way, though, hopefully Fallout 76 a wakeup call for them.

VampireBuddha Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline from Ireland Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline
Dec 29th 2019 at 2:12:02 AM

[up][up]Healthy food isn't more expensive because it's in vogue. Cooking at home with fresh ingredients is cheaper than getting fast food every day (well, maybe if you're only eating from McDonald's eurosaver menu). Fast food is cheaper than proper restaurants, but that's because fast food uses lower-quality ingredients and highly automated processes to get the food out as quickly and homogenously as possible; they also get bulk buy discounts. Proper restaurants use better ingredients and skilled chefs and cooks to make something that tastes genuinely good, but those ingredients and skilled workers cost money.

I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this analogy. Maybe Bethesda isn't like fast food after all. Perhaps they're more like one of those trendy haute cuisine restaurants. For a long time, their food was middling, but the presentation, ambience, and flavour combinations were all so unique that the overall experience was one you couldn't get anywhere else. But then Ubisoft, Guerilla Games, Nintendo, and Obsidian started to offer similar haute cuisine that actually tastes good, and Bethesda tried to compete by offering more traditional meals without improving the quality of the actual food.

Dude... you ever notice that, like, stuff, man?
Steven The Nu Mou Enthusiast from The Room Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
The Nu Mou Enthusiast
Dec 29th 2019 at 6:01:15 AM

If we are gonna use food analogies, Bethesda that restaurant whose owner keeps cutting corners to maximize profits (which includes low quality ingredients/food) and keeps doing it in spite of complaints from their customers and Yelpers.

Something something thoughts and prayers
MightyKombat And? And? And? And? AND? from Are explosions science?
And? And? And? And? AND?
Dec 29th 2019 at 6:13:57 AM

This is gonna go on for a while so Sterling is Gordon Ramsay right?

fallout 76 is FUCKING RAW

I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
Steven The Nu Mou Enthusiast from The Room Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
The Nu Mou Enthusiast
Dec 29th 2019 at 6:50:09 AM

76. Being FUCKING RAW since 2018.

Something something thoughts and prayers
VampireBuddha Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline from Ireland Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline
Dec 29th 2019 at 3:03:14 PM

I was just going to post "SHUT IT DOWN", but let's take the Gordon Ramsay thing further. Two particular moments from Hell's Kitchen come to mind.

In season 2, Ramsay acquired some low-grade dollar-store food and made it up to look all fancy. He told the contestants that a small bowl of Cheez-Whiz was a thick cheese fondue, ground hot dog were expensive paté, and so on. They ate it, and they all raved about how amazing it was. Ramsay's conclusion was that they all had terrible palates. Cue the blind taste test.

In season 7, he had a presentation challenge. The task was to make a dish which looked good, because as that little stunt from season 2 shows, presentation does matter. Benjamin won with an incredibly elaborate, intricate colourful structure of fine ingredients that photographed amazingly; as often happens, Ramsay decided to put that dish on the menu that evening. Cue Ed being completely unable to actually make the damn thing during a normal dinner service (seriously, even without Gordon Ramsay screaming at you, it was the sort of thing you'd cook at home for a special occasion, not in a busy restaurant kitchen).

Bethesda is like a combination of those scenarios. They have long made intricate, complex, well-presented games with bad code and poor working practices. Then Fallout 76 comes out, and it's like a kitchen decided presentation doesn't matter that much, so they just serve the same mediocre ingredients without dressing them up all fancy, and wonder why people complain. Meanwhile, the neighbouring places are making games that offer similar experiences to those of Bethesda, but with better code and structure.

By the same analogy, indie developers are like restaurants who take Ramsay's advice not to get too ambitious with your recipes. Be inventive and show individual flare, but the most important thing is to use fresh, high-quality ingredients and keep the recipe/game simple so that you can reliably make it. Bethesda is thus also like the team who tries super-complex recipes in the dinner service where they set their own menus, and end up getting overwhelmed.

Edited by VampireBuddha on Dec 29th 2019 at 11:04:01 AM

Dude... you ever notice that, like, stuff, man?
Steven The Nu Mou Enthusiast from The Room Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
The Nu Mou Enthusiast
Dec 29th 2019 at 4:32:44 PM

There's also the Kitchen Nightmare episode where this one restaurant cooked nearly every damn thing in a bloody microwave. No guesses on the quality of the food from cooking it that way. That what these buggy games remind me of; somewhat presentable, but awful taste.

Something something thoughts and prayers
M84 Light our darkest hour! from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Light our darkest hour!
Dec 29th 2019 at 5:45:44 PM

Even worse, Bethesda tries to downplay their problems as if they were a lighthearted joke.

It'd be like a restaurant trying to pass off overcooked food, undercooked food, vermin skittering around, rude wait staff, etc. as jokes.

And people more or less accepted it for a long time in part because they could fix the issues themselves via modding. It'd be like the same restaurant letting their customers into the kitchen to make their own dishes.

But with Fallout 76, the restaurant has banned the customers from the kitchen.

Edited by M84 on Dec 29th 2019 at 9:47:07 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Steven The Nu Mou Enthusiast from The Room Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
The Nu Mou Enthusiast
Dec 29th 2019 at 6:23:35 PM Something something thoughts and prayers
M84 Light our darkest hour! from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Light our darkest hour!
Dec 29th 2019 at 6:24:54 PM

That kind of bullshit excuse might have been more plausible if Bethesda hadn't gone whole hog on the monetization. They pretty much put in every form of monetization in this game.

Edited by M84 on Dec 29th 2019 at 10:25:41 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CryoJNik from Somewhere rolling my eyes Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Dec 29th 2019 at 9:09:46 PM

No, it shouldn't have been acceptable, monetization scheme or no. It's that mentality that let them keep presenting their elder scrolls and fallout titles with that same buggy engine and mediocre presentation knowing good and well of any other company did the same thing you'd be bashing them left right and center for doing this.

I find it ironic that a show with the message "Keep moving Forward" has a fanbase adamantly stuck on past missteps.
M84 Light our darkest hour! from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Light our darkest hour!
Dec 29th 2019 at 10:08:15 PM

[up]Not my point. My point was that them trying to claim it's a parody (which they haven't yet for the record) would be more plausible (but not really plausible) if the game wasn't rife with monetization.

It being rife with monetization is the proof that Bethesda was really serious about this game being a big moneymaker for them.

It should be noted that pretty much every case of Parody Retcon is just a bullshit excuse to cover for the work getting a bad reception.

The page quote sums it up:

"I contend that making a film that's only part satire is hedging your bet, in a sense saying 'if you like it and think it's good, then it's a good movie. If you think it stinks, then I meant it to be funny.' It's the coward's way to make a movie."

Edited by M84 on Dec 30th 2019 at 2:11:34 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
VampireBuddha Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline from Ireland Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline
Dec 30th 2019 at 1:44:55 AM

Yeah, a parody retcon is still a retcon. It's things like Tommy Wiseau claiming that he totally intended The Room as a dark comedy, honest.

Dude... you ever notice that, like, stuff, man?
VeryVileVillian Do you like my shell? from Russia Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Do you like my shell?
Dec 30th 2019 at 8:58:53 AM

Top Ten Shittiest Games Of 2019 (The Jimquisition)

Each one represents an ETERNITY OF SUFFERING AND MISERY! I LOVE to hear them suffering...
TheLovecraftian from Software Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Dec 30th 2019 at 9:21:22 AM

...Anthem and Crackdown 3 came out this year... right... I genuinely forgot.

Oh, and some fan-favorite content returning to the show as well.

Propta Fornicatio et Nudatio Circumspectans, Unitati
VampireBuddha Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline from Ireland Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline
Dec 30th 2019 at 12:46:46 PM

Huh, I'm surprised that Mario Kart Tour didn't make the list.

It's a pity the web was so primitive in 1999, because then people could have said "See you next year. Also see you next decade. Also see you next century. Also see you next millennium."

Dude... you ever notice that, like, stuff, man?
CryoJNik from Somewhere rolling my eyes Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Dec 30th 2019 at 1:12:07 PM

The list was about games, not scams.

[up][up][up][up][up] It would still be garbage. Claiming you're a parody doesn't absolve the creator of needing to put out a good product.

Edited by CryoJNik on Dec 30th 2019 at 3:17:46 AM

I find it ironic that a show with the message "Keep moving Forward" has a fanbase adamantly stuck on past missteps.
M84 Light our darkest hour! from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Light our darkest hour!
Dec 30th 2019 at 6:36:06 PM

[up]Again not my point. At this point I think you're deliberately missing it to make it seem like I'm trying to excuse Fallout 76's flaws. Of course it'd be garbage. Of course it'd be a bullshit excuse like every fucking example of a Parody Retcon.

My point is that the excuse is even less plausible if they try to make it because of the monetization. If you really were deliberately making a parody as a joke on your audience, you wouldn't put in monetization.

Edited by M84 on Dec 30th 2019 at 10:38:29 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
VeryVileVillian Do you like my shell? from Russia Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Do you like my shell?
Jan 1st 2020 at 7:29:45 AM

WWE 2K20 Literally Doesn't Work In The Year 2020

Each one represents an ETERNITY OF SUFFERING AND MISERY! I LOVE to hear them suffering...
VampireBuddha Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline from Ireland Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Guardian of the Grand Unified Timeline
Jan 1st 2020 at 11:13:32 AM

Well that's an impressive degree of failure.

Dude... you ever notice that, like, stuff, man?
Ghilz Fight It Out! from The Moon, Or Canada Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fight It Out!
Jan 1st 2020 at 12:12:49 PM

Yeah, that's some Fallout 76 shit right there.

MightyKombat And? And? And? And? AND? from Are explosions science?
And? And? And? And? AND?
Jan 1st 2020 at 1:31:51 PM

Yanno inbetween characters going through Hell In A Cell walls and roofs, characters turning into Large Marge, why wouldn't the game suddenly refuse to work on the year its sodding named after?

I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know

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