With the new, very proeminent, links in the bottom of the list, I think the situation is cleared. Now the Workshop is more visible to usual wiki goers as well as forum newbies, which will hopefully attract more people to them, while the whole forum is by no means hard to find. Furthermore, it also draws more attention to the media forums, which is probably the second more important forums, behind the workshop (the wiki is abut media in general almost as much as about tropes, after all).
edited 16th Feb '12 6:03:15 PM by Heatth
I feel like we're on a bit of an extended derail about the purpose/usefulness/nature of the forums right now, but I'd like to get back to the change itself.
Now, this change was to emphasize the part of the forums devoted to the site itself and simplify the forum interface, thus attracting new users, correct? Do we have any evidence this is working? If the intention was to increase troper participation the the workshop forums, we should evaluate whether or not the new format is doing so, or else the entire change is pointless. Now, I realize it might be a little early to compare forum traffic, but it's still worth looking at.
Another point: if this change is to increase forum participation, why on earth would we not have a headline about it? That's erasing the entire point. If people aren't aware of a change, they're not going to react to it. If there is indeed a group of people who were intimidated by the forum's previous look, wouldn't we want to tell them "Hey, the forums are simpler now. Come on over!"? It's like being frustrated about someone complaining that the coffee maker is broken when you haven't told them you fixed it two weeks ago.
edited 16th Feb '12 10:58:06 PM by KrisMahai
“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”I feel as if the barrier that this change is presenting to new visitors is being vastly under-emphasized.
If someone is new to the site, and is looking for a forum to discuss things on, they are logically going to look for some sort of button labeled "forums." They aren't going to go click on something labeled "workshops," as that would be functionally meaningless to someone unfamiliar with the site, and at a first glance has absolutely nothing to do with forums.
It isn't a matter of laziness, it is matter of a complete lack of intuitivity. A viewer may at some point go and experiment with all the various buttons at random, but finding the forums this way does not help with any newbies who are actively looking for them.
And Hydronix, let me ask you something. How exactly do you expect new readers to become editors? You present things as if there is some sort of enormous fundamental gap between editors and any other readers, but the fact of the matter is, all of the editors were just visitors at some point. And any new visitor has the potential to become an editor and work on the wiki. The logical step here is to do everything possible to draw new visitors in, and even more importantly, ensure that they stick around. Because the longer they are hear, the more likely it is that they will ultimately decide to chip in. So it seems key in getting people to stay, to provide them with an easily accessible place to commune and chat, regardless of what it is that they want to commune and chat about.
I draws things. And I seem to be some sort of marine entity.![]()
Regarding easiness to find: The forum button wasn't all that prominent back then either. Anyway, if somebody wants to find a TV tropes forum, they'll probably use a search engine or something. I mean, what, are they gonna go "there is no button that says FORUMS, I guess there aren't any," or something?
You assume that arguing on the internet requires some sort of emotional investment? And anyway, it's only the people who are against this who make such a big deal of it. "oh no, if there is no tiny button that says FORUMS and is IMMEDIATELY VISIBLE, people would assume there isn't such a thing, D:".
edited 17th Feb '12 4:15:39 AM by ThatHuman
something@ heatth: Not on the front page it doesn't, which is exactly Spatula's point.
If an additional "Forums" button on the top bar is for some reason completely out of the question, how about adding a few lines to the site's opening spiel about what the workshops are and where to find the rest of the forums?
edited 17th Feb '12 4:41:17 AM by Gaunt88
Which is pretty obscure, auto hidden, surrounded by ads with no real obvious tell that it is a drop down thing let alone that it is obvious that it is in there. (Let alone know what the heck that means.)
If it was set to be open all the time first it would make things better and let people find lost and found and other things easier. (with Mouseover Laconics of what exactly all those things are for.)
IMO just putting forums up top by merging the watch list buttons would be the best bet and make everyone happy.
edited 17th Feb '12 8:23:28 AM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!Indeed. It's a bit crude looking, but hey, it's a start.
I draws things. And I seem to be some sort of marine entity.The troperville, tools and toy menus on the wiki now have a ∇ next to them to indicate that they're dropdown (which
actually isn't the upside down triangle which would be ▽).
edited 17th Feb '12 10:44:58 AM by Lock
Programming and surgery have a lot of things in common: Don't start removing colons until you know what you're doing.

i'll let it go for the time being, but i still think this is a weird change