It's not a question of scaring them off; it's a question of making the forums as accessible as possible. They're a rather major part of the site, and I just think they need a bit more prominence than being dumped in the sidebar. I mean, even before I've seen a number of cases of people who had been visiting the site for months but didn't realize that we had forums.
Yes, once you know it's there it's mildly inconvenient at worst, but to someone who's new to the site it might be the difference between getting involved in the forums and not being aware of them. I know when I first came to the sight I didn't poke around the sidebar all that much.
Reaction Image RepositoryI wish you would stop deifying the wiki with comments like saying forums are optional... it's getting tiresome to hear it when I've already presented responses to it. The wiki itself is optional for the web. But it's up anyway because dedicated people are interested in the project. Optional doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.
edited 16th Feb '12 12:48:31 PM by abstractematics
Now using Trivialis handle.Because the Forums are optional. They always have been and always will be. They are just a bonus to the site.
That has never changed. When 1% of the Wiki Users are the forumgoers, they whole "forum community" is key to the site is a false premise and the statistics don't hold up.
In addition, no, it's just as accessible. Nobody is being hurt, more like butthurt that they have to do a little more work. There's no reason to put the layout back. At best, a different coloring for the "All Forums" button would be fine.
Quest 64 threadI'm sorry, but could you please not call people "butthurt" just because they disagree with you? No matter how many times you say it hasn't, this change has made the forums less accessible, even if not by much, and has decreased the chances of new members finding the forums on their own. It is not a matter of me or anyone else being "lazy" or "butthurt".
You are giving the forum way too much credit. It's helpful.
I've been over this before, it's not the reason the Wiki itself gets read. It's just a helpful tool.
I'll repeat it again; Nobody is actually getting hurt, and the Wiki itself is a service only to the readers. The Editors do all the work on it. Having them so slightly more work won't hurt them. At all. Newbies do not get hurt by this either. It's a false premise.
No. Because that's what's happening here. Nobody is actually physically or mentally hurt by this. I cannot accept this as having any real negative impact on the Wiki. More people are coming to these particular parts now. It got the job done. Making an announcement wouldn't have made any real impact on the overall Wiki either. This only helps overall.
edited 16th Feb '12 1:00:44 PM by Hydronix
Quest 64 thread![]()
And I'm saying the wiki itself is a helpful tool but it exists anyway. Your post isn't a response to what I just said. It's a response to what I said 2 pages ago, which I've already answered.
The reason I said that earlier is this. I've read your point, and I know where you're coming from. I understand what's your basis for that rationale. You don't need to restate it when it's not a response to anything. That's flamebait.
Now using Trivialis handle.I'd rather we point out real potential problems (like abstract is) rather than They Changed It, Now It Sucks! over a single button which changes only when you're outside the forums.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerConsidering that most of the site is "outside of the forums", I'm not sure if that distinction really means that much, but okay.
Can I just suggest we find a less extreme way to make the Wiki talk sections stand out? Like, give them a coloured background on the forum index page, or have them horizontally across the top of all the colums like the FAQ link. Something where the full forums can still be linked to on the entire site. The main reason for this change was to make Wiki talk stand out a bit more, right?
It should be more emphasized from within the wiki. Much like how a trope page may have a link to a repair shop. More of that.
(Need to leave)
edited 16th Feb '12 1:11:23 PM by abstractematics
Now using Trivialis handle.That doesn't change a first glance.
People will still see a gigantic list of forums. That's the key issue.
I agree with changing the extra button's color, but making all the forums have another color scheme may not help either.
Quest 64 threadHow is a gigantic list of forums an issue? If you're talking about those people who are apparently large-forum-phobic, I thought those turned out to be non-existant.
And I didn't mean changing the colour of the entire forums. Here, lemme go knock something together on Paint...
edited 16th Feb '12 1:10:44 PM by YamiiDenryuu
I know you meant the specific forums' colors. You don't need to write anything up. However, by changing its color, people won't actually fully notice those forums in particular still. In fact, they might just notice the non-wiki forums. Why? Because they can notice either color. Blue or "Red"(for example).
And it's an issue since the non-Wiki-based forums get more attention than the ones related to the Wiki. All this does is explicitly change that so it's the opposite.
Quest 64 threadOkay, I think both sides are blowing this out of proportion a bit. Yes, having no forum button on the main page is a minor inconvenience, but it is an inconvenience that has greater ramifications than it taking an extra click to get to the forums. It's not going to wreck the forums or anything either, but it's something that could be made more convenient by simply adding another button or something.
Reaction Image Repository[up
]Actually, I'm not sure you know what I mean. I meant something that would clearly make them more noticable than the other forums, not just changing them to a different colour, like this
◊ (yes, that looks awful, but you get the idea). And arranging them in a row above the other forums would help even more. The thing is, there are ways to call more attention to Wiki talk that don't require sidelining the rest of the forums. (Of course, no amount of calling attention to them will increase activity if no one wants to post there, but that's another problem entirely, one that can't exactly be solved by changing the forum layout short of cutting the rest of the forums entirely, and that would be terrible.)
I hope I'm not coming off as blowing this out of proportion... But yeah, giving Workshops a separate button alongside the all forums button would work too.
edited 16th Feb '12 1:22:17 PM by YamiiDenryuu
Aren't they already arranged perfectly with the old system anyway? And yeah, I won't lie, bad color scheme. I'd rather the actual links be differently colored if anything.
The problem is, yours doesn't call as much attention to them as the latest system does. It might work in theory, but this version is gathering a lot of attention alone. So the system does actually work.
Quest 64 thread
If there's a section of the forum that needs more attention than the rest of it and it's just thrown in there like all the other sections, than it's not perfect. And those are just the default Paint blue colours. Obviously the actual thing would use colours from the rest of the Tv Tropes layout. And I don't think changing just the link colours would make enough of a difference.
And again, it's great that this setup is calling more attention to Wiki talk, but that's really no good if the rest of the forums are sidelined like this. Like it or not, there's more to the Tv Tropes community than just writing trope pages. I'm just trying to find a compromise between the two.
I'd say it's already compromised by making sure the other forums exist.
I also don't see a reason for the Wiki itself to specify the unrelated forums.
All Forums would be a fine button on the Wiki. No problem with me. Or color the button for "All Forums" after you click Workshops. Either works.
Quest 64 threadUm... guys? There's a link to the media forums and to the entire forums at the bottom of the list now
. I think even new people will be able to notice them and click if they're interested.
edited 16th Feb '12 2:20:45 PM by Nocturna
I think that's a good move.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

oh look ninja.
edited 16th Feb '12 12:39:35 PM by YamiiDenryuu