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Which namespace does this work belong in?

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This is the sticky thread for questions related to the namespacing of works. As in, "which is the right namespace for this work?"

Ideally, questions already answered are covered on the Namespace Map. If you know a namespacing issue has already been resolved, but it is not yet documented on the Map, please update the Map.

If you want to suggest a new namespace, don't post here, but in Suggesting New Namespaces instead.

    Original OP: 
I busy myself with moving works off of Main/ and I've encountered a number of cases where I can't decide to which namespace something should go. Some of these questions may have been asked before, but there seems to be no general reference point for namespace issues. Maybe this could become a sticky thread for all media-namespace related questions?

For easier reference, I've numbered my questions:

  • #1: Where do animated films go? They seem to be distributed rather inconsistenly over Film/ (Puss In Boots, Whats Opera Doc), WesternAnimation/ (Disneys Anne Frank, Snow White), Anime/ (Princess Mononoke) and Disney/ (Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs, Der Fuehrers Face).
  • #2: There are a few songs which have their own pages ("Pirate Jenny"). Where do they go – to Music/ or to Literature/ ?
  • #3: Where do composers go – to Music/ , or are they to be treated like other creators, which hitherto stay on Main/ ?
  • #4: Where do Talk Shows, Game Shows and News Broadcasts go? I guess you could call these formats Live-Action TV but they're not really "TV series", as in Series/.
  • #5: Am I right in assuming that Puppet Shows go to Series/ ?
  • #6: What about “hybrid shows”, i.e. segment shows that incorporate both live action and animation? (e.g. Die Sendung Mit Der Maus)
  • #7: Where to put picture books? I am thinking of books like Der Struwwelpeter and Max and Moritz — books that are really not complete without their illustrations. They are not (yet) ComicBook/s, but to sort them under Literature/ feels a little unsatisfactory too.
  • #8: The rule is to put works into the namespace of their original medium. However, once in a while there is a work which is little known in its original medium, and almost exclusively known by its adaptation. I’m thinking of Das Boot, for example: there's a novel, but it is almost exclusively known by the Petersen movie.
  • #9: Should One Book Authors who are invariably tied to a single work be treated as a creator or a work page rather?— Currently, we have Samuel Pepys and Herodotus, but shouldn't these pages be at Literature/The Diary of Samuel Pepys and Literature/The Histories rather?
  • #10: There are cases where I’m unsure whether to use the English or the original title. Is there are hard rule that determines whether Der Ring Des Nibelungen goes to Theatre/Der Ring des Nibelungen or Theatre/The Ring of the Nibelung? Even Wikipedia uses the original title.

I'd be grateful for input.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Nov 9th 2023 at 8:15:08 PM

ArkadyDarell Since: Dec, 2011
#901: May 20th 2014 at 7:53:19 AM

Darn it, pagetopper...

Put individual works in whatever medium namespace they apply

That's the entire problem; each of the individual works apply to more than one medium at the same time.

and index everything in an Expanded Universe page for the franchise (example: Star Wars Expanded Universe).

We already have a Franchise page for the franchise: Transformers: Timelines.

And, looks like the page itself explains the issue:

Also, the stories are not even all in the same medium. Instead, the storylines are all told via serial installments spanning multiple mediums—mainly Comic Books and Web Original short prose stories—which are available for members at the official fan club website.

edited 20th May '14 7:55:53 AM by ArkadyDarell

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#902: May 20th 2014 at 7:56:59 AM

Pfft. Just pick one and go with it, then. Redirect the other. If they're published as comic books, I'd say go with that as Web Original is deprecated.

edited 20th May '14 7:57:22 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ArkadyDarell Since: Dec, 2011
#903: May 20th 2014 at 8:00:52 AM

Which one, though? Do we go by "first installment wins", even if there's more stories in the other medium overall?

If we go by "which has more installments", what happens if there's equal amounts of comics and prose? What happens if the series get revisited (which definitely happens, especially to Shattered Glass) and the balance eventually tips to the other medium?

It just seems needlessly complicated.

(Also, I would just use Literature, personally, not Web Original.)

edited 20th May '14 8:01:51 AM by ArkadyDarell

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#904: May 20th 2014 at 8:05:11 AM

In the end, as long as people can find the articles, it doesn't matter. Pick one to use, whatever it might be, and redirect the other applicable namespaces. Just try to be consistent across the body of work.

edited 20th May '14 8:05:24 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ArkadyDarell Since: Dec, 2011
#905: May 20th 2014 at 8:15:07 AM

I did pick one, ironically. If you think it should be something like Mixed Media or whatever, that's cool, but I think it's just way easier to accept that some works involve more than one medium and create a namespace for it.

Especially since I can't be consistent across all the Timelines stuff. Classics could be Comic Book, but Transtech and Shattered Glass would probably make more sense as Literature.

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#906: May 20th 2014 at 8:29:55 AM

Yes, some works are multiformat.

Given that the primary format is a through a fanclub, I've already expressed my opinion.

edited 20th May '14 8:35:21 AM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
ArkadyDarell Since: Dec, 2011
#907: May 20th 2014 at 8:38:58 AM

See, there you go. This would benefit several works to be more accurately placed.

Especially since with the number of works in Main apparently shrinking we're probably going to hit more and more oddball cases that weren't moved because people couldn't figure where to move them to.

And, no offense, but I already pointed out why your opinion is inaccurate, unless we're going to start classifying official fiction sold at retail as fanfic...

edited 20th May '14 8:39:19 AM by ArkadyDarell

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#908: May 21st 2014 at 2:05:39 AM

I'm a little confused you're trying to say that while finding a best fit namespace is good, you want to make a new singular namespace to cover a work that exists in media of various types, correct?

Also, I agree that it is not a Fan Work, these are officially licensed and distributed by Hasbro and other companies

edited 21st May '14 2:07:34 AM by DrPsyche

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#909: May 21st 2014 at 4:22:56 AM

No, the link specifically says that Hasbro is not the distributor. Hasbro has licensed their IP to a fanclub company (Fun Productions), which means for certain considerations (there's probably a limit to what they can do with the characters, and Hasbro must benefit from their use of the IP, usually in the form of money), the fanclub is allowed use of the Transformers IP.

Now, as Fighteer mentioned on the previous page, Expanded Universe is also a thing. That's what the novels you see in bookstores are typically treated as, instead of part of the central canon.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
ArkadyDarell Since: Dec, 2011
#910: May 21st 2014 at 7:56:09 AM

Hasbro has licensed their IP to a fanclub company (Fun Productions), which means for certain considerations (there's probably a limit to what they can do with the characters, and Hasbro must benefit from their use of the IP, usually in the form of money), the fanclub is allowed use of the Transformers IP.

Hasbro has licensed their IP to IDW, which means for certain considerations such as a limit on what they can do with the characters, Hasbro must benefit from their use of the IP, etc., IDW is allowed use of the Transformers IP. But obviously IDW's comics aren't fanfic. Plus, how often is fanfic officially licensed and sold legally in bookstores and comic stores?

I know you're hoping for an easy fix, but Timelines fiction just isn't fanfic.

Now, as Fighteer mentioned on the previous page, Expanded Universe is also a thing. That's what the novels you see in bookstores are typically treated as, instead of part of the central canon.

Which doesn't help with writing up the individual works. It'd be like the difference between the page for the Star Wars Expanded Universe page as a whole and the page for one of the single works that are a part of that Expanded Universe. And AFAIK those single works aren't put in Fanfic.

Plus we already have a page for the Expanded Universe part: Transformers: Timelines. That isn't the problem. It's the individual works that make up that Expanded Universe that are the confusing part.

I guess I'm feeling really frustrated that people don't seem to be paying attention to what I'm saying. Like I keep repeatedly saying each work is a single work, and people are still going on about "Expanded Universes" and Franchises. How is a single work a franchise or expanded universe? Especially after I already explained we already have a Franchise page for the actual Franchise.

It'd be like saying, I don't know, Agents of SHIELD is a franchise because you're treating each episode like a separate work.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#911: May 21st 2014 at 8:01:39 AM

No, you're missing the point. We're telling you to pick a namespace to put each work in that seems reasonable. As long as the other media namespaces get redirected and the main ones are indexed so people can find them, then there's no reason to be concerned.

edited 21st May '14 8:24:45 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ArkadyDarell Since: Dec, 2011
#912: May 21st 2014 at 8:23:24 AM

I already did pick the one that seems most reasonable and correct to me. I'd be willing to redirect the Comicbook and Literature namespaces to it, if you wish.

If you don't want to go with the fact that a single work can be more than one medium at the same time, you're going to have to give me some sort of clear criteria to apply to decide which partial medium to go with. So far my attempts to draw such an answer out have gotten no response whatsoever.

Especially when considering that multiple editors are going to be wicking the work, so having some sort of consistent benchmark is helpful for that.

edited 21st May '14 8:25:49 AM by ArkadyDarell

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#913: May 21st 2014 at 8:25:32 AM

We've given you some. "Most well known", "First", and others, but there is clearly no absolute correct answer. This is a media culture wiki, not an encyclopedia. Take some initiative.

edited 21st May '14 8:25:38 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ArkadyDarell Since: Dec, 2011
#914: May 21st 2014 at 8:28:11 AM

I did take the initiative for what I thought was most correct. So if you won't agree with me on creating the new namespace, then giving me vague, useless instructions to "do what I think is best" aren't going to help, because I already did that and you didn't like it.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
ArkadyDarell Since: Dec, 2011
#916: May 21st 2014 at 8:32:05 AM

Obviously you guys didn't like where I moved the page to, or you'd be going, "We should make Multimedia or something similar an actual namespace" and not going "Move the page to another namespace".

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#917: May 21st 2014 at 8:35:53 AM

That's because "Multimedia" is not a category; it's throwing up your hands and declaring, "Sorry, guys, we can't figure this one out." We want to discourage as much as possible the practice of defaulting to it.

edited 21st May '14 8:37:39 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ArkadyDarell Since: Dec, 2011
#918: May 21st 2014 at 8:37:30 AM

Why is it not a category? If a single work is told in multiple mediums with its episodes not all being in the same medium, then Mixed Media, Multiple Media, Multimedia, etc. is very much its category, if you ask me.

Sorry if I'm coming off as a pain; it just kind of annoying being told, "You're not allowed to put this in the fully correct place, and we also won't at least give you any clear criteria on what half-correct place to put it in."

Especially since I don't think there's any danger of this being used as a default; the fact that we've successfully namespaced 90-something percent of works shows that usually a work has a single medium that is recognizably "right" for it.

edited 21st May '14 8:44:09 AM by ArkadyDarell

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#919: May 21st 2014 at 11:54:17 AM

@ 909: Okay, gotcha

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#920: May 22nd 2014 at 3:49:24 AM

Distroller is in Franchise/, but from what I can tell it's only one work page there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#921: May 24th 2014 at 2:10:04 AM

This is my first time trying to launch a work page and I could use some help on the namespace issue.

It's called Daybreak On Hyperion (link to the work in the decription) but I'm not sure where it belongs in the namespace. As original fiction on the internet my first thought is Web Original, but it's consciously written in the style of a Light Novel (and hosted on a site specifically for Light Novel translations) which would suggest the Light Novel namespace.

Which brings up a tangential question. I know site policy is not to link to scanlation (and the like) sites, but it's the only place I can actually find it archived so I'm not sure about linking to it so prospective readers of the article can read the work for themselves.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#922: May 24th 2014 at 2:13:04 AM

WebOriginal/ is more of a super-namespace for online works that don't have better namespaces. Following the webnovel precedent (they go in Literature/), I would say LightNovel/.

As for scanlation links, no. Unless you can find one that is legal.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#923: May 24th 2014 at 2:41:25 AM

[up] Was afraid of that. Problem is I can't. It originated in the site's forums and is only hosted under their original works section. Just have to figure out something else.

Anyway, where would the best place to get feedback before I launch the article out of the sandbox?

edited 24th May '14 2:42:41 AM by KnightofLsama

m8e from Sweden Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#925: May 24th 2014 at 3:03:16 AM

[up] Yep, that's the one. As I said, baka-tsuki is the only place I know where its archived (and a Google search turned up nothing useful). But as it is primarily a site dedicated to fan translations of light novels, linking is a no-no.


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