Please read the rules below before posting. We're taking turns to post text, and text posted out of turn will be hollered.
The discussion over at the "Is being Troperiffic a Bad Thing?"
thread got a few of us seriously talking about starting a full-fledged, free for all dedicated ConCrit thread. Thanks go to your friendly neighborhood Herald, Chihuahua0, for giving this the go-ahead 
This is how it's going to work:
- This thread is for helping people improve as writers. Please stay away from needlessly gushing or needlessly being mean when handing out criticism.
- No mentioning your own work when giving out criticism. This is to prevent "Let's talk about ME" derails.
- Feedback will be given to one person at a time. We're taking a deliberately slow pace; a person's turn to get feedback is generally supposed to last a week, but we're not ending someone's turn until they get feedback from at least five different people. On the other hand, the person getting feedback can end their own turn if they figure they're done.
- When a turn ends, we wait 12 hours to see if anyone of the people who have just given feedback wants to be up next. If they don't, we pick the person up next from the feedback request list.
- Yes, it's okay to point out spelling and grammar errors made by the person you're giving feedback to.
- If you're unfamiliar with the original verse of a piece of Fan Fiction up for feedback, pretend it's a piece of original fiction and criticize accordingly.
- If and when you step up to receive feedback:
- Post actual writing (not world-building, concepts, layouts, character lists and so on).
- Be specific in what you are looking for, or at least mention what is troubling you the most.
- Fan Fiction is fine, but take into account that anyone not familiar with the source material will judge your piece "blind", essentially by the same standards as original fiction. This means you might get called out on flaws that fan fiction usually gets away with in practice, perhaps even justifiably so. Just like any other kind of criticism, consider it or ignore at at your discretion.
- Be ready to hear some things you probably didn't want to hear. This should go without saying, but, please: No being bitter, being sarcastic, calling people out for "going too far" or otherwise expressing disapproval of the criticism given to you. If you think people are being unfair to your writing, make your case civilly.
With that said, I suppose we can begin and see whether this goes anywhere. The first person to respond with a post to the extent of "I'll go first" will go first.
edited 17th Feb '12 5:07:01 PM by TripleElation
In the name of being honest
Right, wanted to make sure that nobody (who's still watching the threde) had their entry deleted from the list before getting a crit.
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)
SOUL KING BROOK
just joining, is there a turn currently happening, and can I be added to the wait list if there is one?
YOHOHO!
In the box above, see "Feedback Request List" You should critique someone before adding yourself.
SOUL KING BROOK
got it (❁´◡`❁)
YOHOHO!
Creative and Confused
I'm the main writer behind 'Chaos Plates'. I am mostly looking at whether if the story is being communicated well or if something doesn't sit right.
"I know my faults, my downsides. More than you know." -Red Vox
Well, I have to say this is different. It has the appearance of a script, and mentions voice actors. Is this intended to be a podcast? If so, you need to include more of the technical details, like sound effects, and who is narrating the "Story Entries"? If it isn't, it's certainly an unusual way to structure a narrative.
It's so unusual, I had trouble getting into it at first. I gradually got used to it.
The story suffers in the beginning from a lack of characterization and background. I don't know who these people are, what the situation is, or why they are together. I did gradually piece together a plausible setting, but the characters remained challenging to relate to. Each of them come off as a little too simple: the angry teen boy is just an angry teen boy, the manipulative patronizing scientist is just a manipulative patronizing scientist, the naive sweet little girl is just a naive sweet little girl. With only three characters, practically no setting and very little action, the entire story rests on their dialogue. So the fact that the dialogue comes across as stilted is a major weakness.
This is easily fixed, however. I don't think you need to change anything so much as add more. We need to see into the mind and emotional state of the scientist, especially as he is the one writing most of the log entries. It would be interesting if he is able to see past the masks the other two are using to conceal their emotional vulnerabilities, for example; and if they, in turn, were able to see a little into his. In particular, no one seems to be traumatized at all by what I assume is an apocalypse of some sort happening outside. The two children could jump at loud noises, or refuse to answer questions about their families.
A lot of that comes out in the interaction between the boy and the girl, but that's later in the story. We need more hints of that earlier on. The girl draws pictures and keeps a diary, which is useful, but the boy doesn't do anything to reveal himself. It might help the reader relate to him if he acted out his anger more, like pacing his room or punching the wall. By the way, his semi-abusive behavior toward the girl doesn't really work for me. It makes his character really unlikable (I found myself wishing the scientist would just dump him back in the street), and her refusal to change her positive attitude toward him despite it makes her seem to flat and unresponsive to be real (or else she's an idiot). Here's an idea, what if she does lose her temper with him and rejects him, and that's what gets him to open up a bit? I would also like to see some signs of vulnerability on the part of the scientist, maybe he can mention a wife or friend or something, except so clinically and detached that we know something is wrong with him?
Regardless of all that, this is an interesting approach. Three people trapped in a bunker of some kind, with no where to hide from their personal flaws. It's like a set piece play, or an episode of the Twilight zone. Keep at it, fill out the gaps, and I think you will have something here.
Edited by DeMarquis on Feb 27th 2021 at 7:31:13 AM
Creative and Confused
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Thanks, this is actually really helpful. The idea for how this is going to be done is still between an RPG-style visual novel that could be done in something like Gamemaker Studio / RPGMAKER or just a comic that is voiced. The entries is just structural stuff and helps with planning. Story entry is likely going to be more Show, Don't Tell where other senses can be used like audio and visual stuff.
I think I realize my problem is that I don't really give a real incentive for people to continue reading. The idea was two characters were gonna be unlikable at the start and then develop them but after hearing from an third-party perspective (I guess I could call it), it does make me realize how frustrating it actually is.
The problem with Martin (angry teen boy) is I don't know how to hint at his backstory without it being just exposition dumping or forced. Problem with Smirn (scientist) is I wanted him to be pragmatic, cold and manipulative to a fault since he's just Well-Intentioned Extremist, the idea of him sounded good in theory.
Edited by nuclear_shmatt on Feb 28th 2021 at 2:31:52 AM
"I know my faults, my downsides. More than you know." -Red Vox
Sure, I can understand that. But readers need a certain level of complexity in order to relate to a character. I'm not saying make Smirn less manipulative, just hint at some inner vulnerability (what's with that name anyway? "Smirn" sounds more like a facial expression than a name. To 'smirn' at someone, I could totally see that being a thing).
Edited by DeMarquis on Feb 27th 2021 at 8:34:29 AM
Creative and Confused
Smirn was just an older name for the character that got changed. I don't know any Sm- names that I could replace it with. Irrelevant to Sm- names, there is also the name Stern but I felt that was too on the nose.
"I know my faults, my downsides. More than you know." -Red Vox
Maybe Smirnov?
Creative and Confused
That does spark an idea for his ethnicity. I'll consider Smirnov, thanks!
Glad to have helped!
Creative and Confused
Advice for dialogue? I don't know how I should improve or make the dialogue more natural, maybe some questions I should ask myself each time I do dialogue could help?
"I know my faults, my downsides. More than you know." -Red Vox
This site lists a lot of tips.
Creative and Confused
I changed the first entry to try and give more exposition while trying to maintain Smirnov's clinical and detached tone/dialogue:
Is this an improvement or still suffering from previously mentioned weaknesses?
"I know my faults, my downsides. More than you know." -Red Vox
It's a vast improvement. That actually has the potential to engage the reader for most of the rest of the story.
Creative and Confused
Alright, thanks for the that. At least I know that I am heading in a better direction. I think I'll end my turn there since I don't have much else to ask, unless someone has something to add at all. I can work with the constructive criticism I've received.
"I know my faults, my downsides. More than you know." -Red Vox
No, i have nothing to add. Let's continue with...oh wait,it's my turn...
(Sweats and panic hard.)
I wanted to see if Eagle had anything to say.
Unreasonably Quirky
I just read The Life and Times of Eleanor. Should I post my critique, or are we still waiting for someone?
I love to learn, I love to yearn, and most of all... I love to make money.
No more waiting, let's go for it.
Unreasonably Quirky
Alllllllrighty then!
Kinnikuniverse (nice name, BTW), one thing I noticed about your story is that you really have an ear for prose. This part, in particular, I was impressed by:
I'm also rather fond of this protagonist you've created. From what I can tell, she's mischievous, snarky, and pretty bad at controlling her impulses, but is still a good person at heart. I'd love to see more of her.
There are only two problems I see with the draft - and, admittedly, the first one is pretty big. The first is that your grammar and formatting need a lot of work. Random words are capitalized for no reason, and the story sometimes shifts back and forth between past and present tense. You need to choose one or the other when telling a story. So this graph, for instance:
Should look like this:
The other is... is this supposed to be a short story, or the first chapter of a longer story? I'm asking because I don't think it works all that well as a standalone work, as there are a few plot threads that go unresolved (we never find out what Father McCulloch did, for instance).
Hope that helped!
Edited by TyeDyeWildebeest on Mar 16th 2021 at 8:03:47 AM
I love to learn, I love to yearn, and most of all... I love to make money.
This is from a standalone work of mine, describing the setting and one of my main characters:
The houses were those British newbuilds of the 1970s; no boring grey towerblocks here.
It was a largely white place both physically and in terms of demographic, although you occasionally came across a few Chinese or Indian people and the term chino used as an insult towards the Chinese people.
It wasn't the place to be if you were metrosexual, gay, or trendy; you'd have been frightened to walk the estate.
The roads were a load of D-shaped crescents, and they all had themed names like Azalea, Honeysuckle etc. along with old-fashioned 1960s-style swan-neck streetlamps that were rusting and not maintained and 1980s streetlighting that somehow seemed to still work and give off that familiar yellow hue with the buzzing sound.
The streets looked frozen to the 1990s with their old 1980s Ford Sierras, Volkswagen Passats, Chrysler Le Baron and Vauxhall Astra/Opel Kadetts parked everywhere, and one Chrysler Le Baron was rusting away, its blue paint faded as a pair of sunwashed denim jeans, and chip shops and Chinese takeaways everywhere, along with pawn shops, and pubs with names like The Royal.
Patricia cautiously walked through the neighbourhood, stopping by at a shop to get some snacks for the long drive back; she'd left her 2014 Honda CR-V outside the shop.
She felt a bit like an outsider with her modern business suit and SUV, and at best would be seen as a "posh bint" by the locals.
Patricia tried not to feel uncomfortable, but something made her feel uncomfortable there, yet in her head a voice was telling her to "just get on with it and be your normal bold self".
How's this writing for a scene, is it describing it well?
I've taken Artistic License – Geography here with the setting to make things more interesting. Plus, Artistic License – Cars - but that can be Hand Wave'd away as an Alternate History since Chrysler never sold the Le Baron sedan in the UK in the 1980s officially.
The housing estate is more Alternate History since it's on a peninsula from Middlesbrough which doesn't exist in Real Life.
Edited by Merseyuser1 on Mar 16th 2021 at 12:13:25 PM
Unreasonably Quirky
So, on to "Chaos Plates"?