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Trope Repair Shop: Does it need improvement? (also concerns Image Pickin')

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#351: Feb 8th 2012 at 4:55:09 PM

I think so as long as they've been out of YKTTW for a while. A lot of tropes get a bad start. They're not wiked properly or they start out with a terrible name. That sort of thing can keep a trope from ever getting out in the wiki and leads to a lot of duplicate tropes because no one even knows that a trope all ready exists.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
LMage Since: May, 2011
#352: Feb 8th 2012 at 5:03:32 PM

I will say that is a trope has a very low usage and a clear problem (that may or may not be part of it's low usage issue (either the product or cause of it)) then it should be in TRS. Still, the first response shouldn't be to cut, cripple, or rename the trope, it should be to address the issue (whatever that may be).

TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#353: Feb 8th 2012 at 5:08:15 PM

Moderators in TRS being firmly in the pro-action camp and not stopping dogpiles on people who advocate the status quo.

How many times did I argue to rename something and had to deal with Shimaspawn's eloquent arguments to the contrary? Probably too many to count...

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
LMage Since: May, 2011
#354: Feb 8th 2012 at 5:11:49 PM

[up]

He is referring to the general attitude of the forums, which is "keep poking it until it gets better" as far as TRS is concerned.

Rotpar Always 3:00 am in the Filth (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Always 3:00 am in the Filth
#355: Feb 8th 2012 at 5:13:21 PM

I don't know if issues with TRS are still really up for discussion. Been dragging my feet. As far possible solutions to things:

We have a to do list feature on the wiki and the system can tell who voted for what. What if you voted for the winning option and the system sent you a PM/to do note reminding you there may be work to do? Not a personal message from a mod to each and every voter, "Hey Rotpar, you voted to clean up bad examples in Nattery Trope X, please do so", but an automatic and generic "Don't forget, you've voted for the winning option in (Link To TRS Thread Here), please contribute if help is needed". Similar to the natter-fy button: crowner is locked, a mod hits the "remind voters" button and it sends it to everyone relevant.

You can't force people to put in the work, but some could use a reminder.

But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you.
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#356: Feb 8th 2012 at 5:16:21 PM

Ooh, excellent idea. Is that doable?

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#357: Feb 8th 2012 at 5:29:19 PM

He is referring to the general attitude of the forums

By using the word "moderators"?

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
LMage Since: May, 2011
#358: Feb 8th 2012 at 5:35:57 PM

The moderates largely set the tone for the entire board/thread the participate in. I might disagree with a senator, and make that disagreement well known to them, but I would still defer to them with the knowledge that they have power over me, and would still follow their general lead or direction in a given discussion.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#359: Feb 8th 2012 at 5:50:48 PM

Well, as one of the most active moderators in the TRS I do not tend to be on the side of renaming without good reasons. In fact I tend to argue down a lot of renames.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#360: Feb 8th 2012 at 5:56:55 PM

[up][up]I don't agree with that. Sometimes the moderators never get involved in a thread at all, and if they do it might just be to throw in their opinion same as any other troper.

EDIT: I hate when I don't see a ninja post until hours later.

edited 8th Feb '12 7:58:16 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#361: Feb 8th 2012 at 6:00:52 PM

I'd agree with Martello, heck, I'd think the Mods could be more involved (But they can't. Ya know, having a life and all). Heck, how many times have I PM'd some mods to get their input in a thread where none had posted...

I think any mod bias has little effect, since lots of thread can go on for months without a mod posting in them.

ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#362: Feb 8th 2012 at 6:44:50 PM

I'm against restricting the TRS to "representatives." Everybody should have access if they want it. Otherwise, to get representative delegates, you need elections?

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
LMage Since: May, 2011
#363: Feb 8th 2012 at 6:50:24 PM

[up]

I agree, our problem is that we need to find a way to open up TRS more not close it off to a select few.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#364: Feb 8th 2012 at 7:24:01 PM

TRS should remain open door. That way anyone can simply walk in and participate. That puts the burden on those who want to change things to come in and participate. If you want a chance to voice your view show up.

Who watches the watchmen?
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#365: Feb 8th 2012 at 7:24:45 PM

Question, do the low usage tropes still count as legitimate complaints?
Yes, disuse is considered a problem.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#366: Feb 8th 2012 at 7:26:01 PM

Do we still count new tropes with terrible titles as problems waiting to happen?

Fight smart, not fair.
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#367: Feb 8th 2012 at 7:30:48 PM

Do we still count new tropes with terrible titles as problems waiting to happen?
Yes, premature launches are problems as well.

LMage Since: May, 2011
#368: Feb 8th 2012 at 7:35:51 PM

Here's my problem with renames: I don't mind it so much when it is clearly necessary with tropes like He's Back!, where the title is clearly in contest, but when we change it to something that fails to met all three parts of Clear Concise Witty, all we do is create another problem, and if we fail at the witty part is not something people are likely to complain about despite it being a problem.

moocow1452 Since: Jan, 2001
#369: Feb 8th 2012 at 8:14:52 PM

Dunno how I feel about that. We obviously don't need to hit all three for every single trope on the wiki, but when some stuff that goes into TRS comes out with on the nose names, like Car That Jumps Off Of Ramps And Into Helicopters That Explode On Contact And Falls Back To Earth, we might have a problem.

Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#370: Feb 8th 2012 at 8:22:37 PM

Did that one happen in anything besides that awful last Die Hard movie?

But you're absolutely right, and I've often pointed that out by proposing an absurd name that truly encapsulates the trope in a seven-word sentence. We don't need that kind of nonsense. The real issue with all the recent renames from the witty names to the boring ones, is that there is a large segment of tropers - I suspect the same people who are scared of the forums - who don't bother to ever fucking read a trope description. They see a trope name and say, "sure, I know what that means, let's shove it into my favorite show! Hooray!" Then there's a bunch of misuse, and somebody (usually DQZ) tells the rest of us that the trope ain't working and we need to rename it. I've argued for a long time that it's not that hard to click a blue link to read a description, and that's what the damn things are for anyway, but I've finally been convinced that most of the editors around here are too damn lazy to even do that. Thus, Boring, but Practical trope names.

edited 8th Feb '12 8:23:02 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
LMage Since: May, 2011
#371: Feb 8th 2012 at 8:25:54 PM

[up]

If that is the issue why not implement a system similar the standing natter one, where you can automatically reverse the editing in a shoe-horned trope that the editor didn't actual read the description of? (I assume that is what the natter-fy button dose, I have never used it myself)

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#372: Feb 8th 2012 at 8:26:51 PM

[up]IT's not what it does. The natterfy button sends a message to the editor telling them their edit was natter and why natter is bad.

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#373: Feb 8th 2012 at 8:27:09 PM

The natter-fy button merely sends a form PM to the guilty party. It doesn't actually revert anything.

Edit: Ninja'd.

edited 8th Feb '12 8:27:23 PM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
LMage Since: May, 2011
#374: Feb 8th 2012 at 8:27:42 PM

[up][up],[up]

Oh....well a similar button for Shoe-Horning wouldn't be a bad idea, it's rather easy to edit out a misused trope by hand anyway.

edited 8th Feb '12 8:27:53 PM by LMage

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#375: Feb 8th 2012 at 8:29:27 PM

Problem is that We don't have an easy way to detect when someone potholes to a page even if we are curating the page. Bad examples on the page proper are easily fixed, yeah. So such a PM depends on the person seeing the edit recognizing the misuse (Which requires double checking every edit or knowing the exact description of every trope ever).

edited 8th Feb '12 8:30:11 PM by Ghilz


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