I agree they shouldn't be completely cut (which makes the title of this thread a bad one and that's my fault), since it doesn't really work without them. Which is why I had not added the cut examples option to the crowner when I made it.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerDon't forget the cute Take That! at the author in the end. 'She didn't use guns, therefore it sucks!' And as another troper already pointed out, it shouldn't even be on the page.
I'm going to try hollering to change the title of the discussion, since it really isn't about just cutting examples anymore.
edited 6th Feb '12 1:33:12 AM by lu127
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer@Dark Nemesis
Since a subset of the troper population decided that there can be no place for criticism or snark (no matter how funny it is) on the site, to the point of trying to kill many AR's and YMMV tropes that can be considered "negative". Why, just a couple weeks back, someone tried to kill a handful of Darth Wiki pages due to "negativity".
I reason that criticism and negativity (when done right) does more to further the goals of the wiki then any amount of mindless gushing. What I am finding more is that several pages have overlapping examples, especially in the DW namespace.
As for What An Idiot, it doesn't need anything more than a periodic cleanup. The examples, by and large, are pretty well-written and highlight silly character decisions.
edited 6th Feb '12 3:06:17 AM by crazyrabbits
Really? Take a look at the anime and manga page. Septimus Heap went and axed any and all justifying edits two days ago. S/He did well, in my opinion, and no one has objected so far. Cleaning up those edits has taken a good chunk of the natter on the page off.
But you know what? The page is still impossible to scroll down! Because people need to add every instance of slight stupidity/plot contrivance on it. Also, there are duplicate examples with Idiot Ball. See here:
Instead she gives Light her real name, even apologizing for using a pseudonym when they first met. Of course, as the viewers already know, Light is Kira, and 40 seconds later Naomi is as good as dead.
This is already under Idiot Ball. Why does it have to be here as well? Not to mention Gundam SEED Destiny, which is already under Idiot Plot, but someone had to list it as What An Idiot as well! While the page explicitely says, Idiot Plot examples stay at Idiot Plot only.
And even though it has barely been two days since the cleanup, a justifying edit showed up right away. So yeah, something does not work with this page. It's basically become: "Idiot Ball but more clattered and specific". For silly decisions, we have Idiot Ball. For silly plots, we have Idiot Plot. We have moments for awesome, funny, and tear jerker. This is a moments page. Why is it not like them?
Darth Wiki is not a bitchingfest. It has genuinely funny pages. The only bitchfests are Wallbanger and DMOS. This fits perfectly there, as a page for fun. If this is moved to Darth Wiki, I will curate it myself.
edited 6th Feb '12 3:29:26 AM by lu127
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerThat's nothing. I've seen worse Anime sections on plenty of other trope pages. Anime is prone to it, especially in YMMV tropes. There's nothing stopping you from splitting examples into subpages, nor is there anything stopping anyone from simply making a paragraph that's a glorified "no Justifying Edits, please."
You and I both know that there's no way people are going to follow a page's advice not to duplicate examples elsewhere (as per the case with Idiot Plot), especially given this wiki's userbase. It happens all the time across plenty of pages.
edited 6th Feb '12 4:02:13 AM by crazyrabbits
There is already a warning against justifying edits. It's not working.
So? We shouldn't have to be accepting of that. We should try find ways to fix it, not just say "it happens, get over it". It's one thing in moments pages, but this is treated as a trope, the way it is now. While it's not a trope.
And this is not a problem limited to anime pages. The page has already been split once. No improvement. The literature section is clattered too, and that's after we axed half the things on Harry Potter. Five live action series have their own pages, but still the live action section is ridiculously long. Something is wrong here.
edited 6th Feb '12 4:13:11 AM by lu127
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer![]()
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I don't see anything wrong with that example. It's textbook What An Idiot, even to someone who has never seen the source.
Obviously, when you have a page about an audience reaction to characters acting stupid, that page is going to have examples related to other stupidity tropes.
That example is not wrong. But it is already under Idiot Ball. The page itself discourages listing things under all stupidity tropes. We document them to the appropriate pages.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer![]()
And unsurprisingly, I just had had to axe several more Justifying Edits. That's really annoying.
Good work on those. However, this just proves they show up immediately.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerIf "clean up examples" passes, we should make one of those LARGE double % comments at the top of each page reminding that, similar to "no discussion on the main page", if it has to be justified, it's not an example, and should be removed.
The sad, REAL American dichotomyPart of the problem with this trope/reaction/whatever we call them these days is it's a slanted conclusion; it automatically ascribes stupidity as the cause of the character's decision or lack thereof. Some of these belong under Headscratchers since the Justifying Edit proves the character had solid reasons for their decision and/or it's not all that obvious that the You Would Think: part would solve the problem. I axed 1 Harry Potter example that was just one such example and any other "Headscratcher"-type examples should go as well.
That being said, there's still the problem that this isn't so much an "Audience reaction" as it is a "Troper reaction". I'd support moving either to the Darth Wiki or the Just for Fun namespace, to emphasize that any "complaint-sounding" examples aren't to be taken too seriously.
Actually yeah, from what I remember, Just for Fun would be another reasonable home.
The sad, REAL American dichotomyYeah, not a friend of Darth Wiki moves.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanYeah, can we act soon?
As stated before, clean up would mean removing examples that have a justifying edit, and I'd suggest making large blocks of % comment text % stating that if it needs to be justified, it's not an example.
edited 14th Feb '12 5:50:53 PM by wanderlustwarrior
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Crown Description:
Currently, What An Idiot examples tend to read like Complaining About Idiot Balls You Dont Like. Moreover, the subpages are cluttered and filled with Justifying Edits. The following have been suggested as possible solutions:

You... can, sure, but it's kind of pointless. So long as both are basically in the green we'll do them.
Honestly I don't really care what we do so long as it's not cutting the examples. Cut the page, make it a redirect to Idiot Ball, clean it up, darthwiki fine just don't leave it an exampleless page.
edited 5th Feb '12 3:04:00 PM by Arha