General Page Quote Discussion:

I'll add the shorter of the two suggestions now.

I implemented the suggestions made by Nocturna in post 2037.

There is a dispute going on on Saints Row IV about the page quote to use. While I do not have an opinion here, I am bringing it up here to get it sorted out.

->"So I’m silent. Then I’m in a coma. Then I’m an asshole. Then I’m famous. Then I topple a worldwide crime syndicate. Then I stop Cyrus from blowing up the world. Then I become President, and now I’m on an alien ship in space. *Giggles* I think I have the best life ever." —>— The Boss

->You got the touch! You got the power!
When all hell's breakin' loose, you'll be riding the eye of the storm
You got the heart, you got the motion
You know that when things get too tough, you got the touch —>— Stan Bush, "The Touch".

I believe using the song quote would be better for several reasons.

• The quote is only attributed to one or two voices, the song portrays Boss regardless.

• The quote would work well for the series page.

• Each page references the main or major song in the game so it would be good to keep going with that theme.

• Boss being a sociopath and Jerkass does not fit in this game. It does fit how s/he had been though so making reference to it on the series page would be more than appropriate. Being heroic however certainly does.

• It might be argued that referencing a reference is odd. Do we go through the site and remove any and all trace of a reference in each page quote?

• The other page quotes have Pot Holes in them, is there some reason that this one in particular is not allowed to have them?

Rather than Edit War over it I would like to hear everyone's thoughts so we can come to a decision.

The quote, despite not being in every playthrough, is an accurate summation of the bizarre character arc of the The Boss and fits the Crazy Awesome persona that, no matter how the player plays him/her, the character winds up getting.

The song, on the other hand, is entirely reliant on potholes for significance to game (past, you know, being in the game). And I don't even really care for the potholes (The Unfettered seems... out of place).

Not to mention that its inclusion is done primarily as a reference to Transformers The Movie. Seems to me a song so strongly associated with TF The Movie would look out of place to anyone who hasn't played the game, and it's less appropriate than, well, an actual quote from the game.

But you're okay with Pot Holes in the game quote. Is there another song perhaps that could be used instead? I'd really like to keep with the song theming. Either that or just use a random quote on each page then declare the war on potholed page quotes, one of the two.

The Potholes to the earlier Saints Row games in the quote are fine. The rest (especially the serial potholes in the latter half) do need to go.

My issue isn't just that there are potholes, but that the lyrics are reliant on potholes to have any relevance. Though potholes in quotes are frowned upon.

As a rule, I am wary of using lyrics in any kind of descriptive context. Since taste in music is so very subjective, the person reading the lyrics can't be expected to know the tune or the context of the song or lyrics, or even agree with the interpretation of said lyrics. Without a tune, most of the song's power is generally lost on the reader, and even if the reader knows the tune, there is no guarantee the reader hears it the same way as the writer. A licensed theme song rarely does more than describe the tone of the work in a very abstract sense, and on the very rare occasion that it does more, the lyrics are generally specially tailored. In short, even in cases where a song features prominently in a work, 'ware of Fan Myopia.

In this case, the quote lifted from the game would indeed go well on the franchise page; while I am not very happy to keep a quote which uses very vague lyrics from a very famous song, it will do until a better one can be found, assuming we don't want to duplicate the game quote across multiple pages.

Both quotes, as shown right now, are riddled with sinkholes and irrelevant potholes, and they also both violate All Blue Entry to some extent. This is particularly bad with the lyrics quote; the only reason I'm not advocating chucking the quote completely is because it does manage to impart some of the irreverent tone the Saint's Row games are famous for to the reader. If either is put back in, I'd probably zap most of the potholes and do some formatting work, but that's neither here nor there right now.

It's largely irrelevant whether other pages have used lyrics as the page quote before. Precedence and consistency are key to many important systems, but on a wiki — or any other large project manned by volunteers — they are never more than ideals to strive for, as it is only in the most extreme of circumstances that mass enforcement is practical. Most matters are much better dealt with on a case-to-case basis, as few problems always have the same solution (in this case, there are indeed times when lyrics work as quotes), and doing otherwise would just bog down the project with unnecessary bureaucracy. Keep to the issue at hand; precedent in other articles can be used for support, but should not be taken as fiat unless backed by a policy or rule. If you wish to change site policy, there are special venues for that (no idea which, though), but this is not the place.

Man, this looks like a very dry read.

I maintain "Saints Row, Bitches!" should be on the main page because it's both the gang Catchphrase and because it's short and sweet. The summation monologue works for the 4th game because it discusses how far the leader has gone up to that point.

EDIT: As for "The Touch", we can make that the quote for Transformers: The Movie, and make the current quote the picture caption (the current caption borders on complaining).

EDIT EDIT: Oh, yeah. The AVGN quote can just be moved to the quotes page.

edited 31st Oct '13 10:09:18 AM by DragonQuestZ

I don't see the current quote on Transformers: The Movie as complaining. "The Touch" has a distinct excess of potholes, though.

I wrote the caption was complaining, not the quote.

Huge fan of Transformers (and the movie especially) and I don't think it's complaining so much as it's an apt description. Pretty much the entire Season 1 and 2 cast was killed off explicitly to sell toys.

"true" =/= "not complaining".

Actually, my biggest issue is the fact it's a big spoiler. Sure, the movie's 25 years old, but still. Not cool.

On a sidenote, Pretentious Latin Motto has two quotes. Which one do we keep?

Second. It's much clearer, and it's our more significant motto.

edited 31st Oct '13 1:49:33 PM by Larkmarn

Regarding potholes in quotes, no quotes whatsoever are supposed to be potholed. That so many quotes do have potholes in them is primarily because the policy isn't well-known, I believe.

I'd never heard of that before, but then, I've only been a reader of the wiki until very recently. Is it in one of the policy articles, or is it admin fiat? If the latter, we should probably update the relevant pages to reflect this.

So, is it about time for a quote pothole Holocaust then?

Will comment on the quote when I've had a sleep.

^^ It's the latter (fiat). Not sure what administrivia page to put that on, though, as I don't think there's one on quotations.

What to Put at the Top of a Page deals with images and quotes. It should probably be part of the do's and taboos of quoting and images.

(Sorry. Do's and Taboos Around The World is one of my favorite books.)

What to Put at the Top of a Page, Pothole, Sinkhole and All-Blue Entry all seem like good places to put the rule. Still, I'm loath to modify a policy without permission.

edited 1st Nov '13 7:07:14 AM by Whitecroc

The policy's been modified; no potholes in quotes. We just ask the mods to add the modification to the page they think it'll be best on.

On Pretentious Latin Motto, I have to ask whether TV Tropes has any examples of this at all. I don't think so, really.

As for the other policy question, the only places I know that speak about page quotes would be the Tips Worksheet and Quotes Wiki.

I would suggest "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes" for Pretentious Latin Motto. Essentially "If you can read this, you are over-educated."