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Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#1276: Apr 29th 2012 at 8:50:34 PM

Maybe if I ignore it, most people in ghettos and jails won't be blacks and latinos.

Obviously the solution is to find more shit to imprison whites for, duh.

Loid from Eastern Standard Time Since: Jun, 2011
#1277: Apr 29th 2012 at 9:03:13 PM

No, clearly the solution is to act like rights are some sort of commodity that can run out and must be hoarded.

"Dr. Strangeloid, or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Cleanlink" - thespacephantom
Sarkastique Hey, gorgeous from Baltimore Since: Dec, 2010
Hey, gorgeous
#1278: Apr 29th 2012 at 9:31:05 PM

Obviously the solution is to find more shit to imprison whites for, duh.

Golf and crystalmeth aren't getting illegal anytime soon.

Memento Mori
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#1279: Apr 29th 2012 at 9:36:17 PM

Are you thinking of the crystal meth that I'm thinking of? Because I feel like I'm missing something here.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#1280: Apr 29th 2012 at 9:39:10 PM

Just to jump in...

@ Ira the Squire

I think you seemed to have ignored China's very proactive multicultural campaign across the decades ever since the Nationalists, a social campaign and education program which the Communists continued. I am not however suggesting that time does not help but that to state that the Chinese government did nothing to assist would ignore that. You can debate on how effective the campaign was versus just simple time passage.

edited 29th Apr '12 9:40:00 PM by breadloaf

Sarkastique Hey, gorgeous from Baltimore Since: Dec, 2010
Hey, gorgeous
#1281: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:02:12 PM

Ha, I was going to say golf and polo shirts but I realized rappers wear them a lot now and forgot that crystal is, in fact, illegal.

edited 29th Apr '12 10:02:21 PM by Sarkastique

Memento Mori
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#1282: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:04:06 PM

Something you wanna tell us about, buddy? That stuff'll mess you up. tongue

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Sarkastique Hey, gorgeous from Baltimore Since: Dec, 2010
Hey, gorgeous
#1283: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:16:19 PM

I can afford cocaine so I don't have a use for that garbage. Maybe if I could get my hands on pharma grade.

edited 29th Apr '12 10:16:31 PM by Sarkastique

Memento Mori
setnakhte That's terrifying. from inside your closet Since: Nov, 2010
That's terrifying.
#1284: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:19:55 PM

How in the names of every god do you forget that meth is illegal?

"Roll for whores."
Sarkastique Hey, gorgeous from Baltimore Since: Dec, 2010
Hey, gorgeous
#1285: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:31:09 PM

When illegal things or activities (e.g. drugs) are normative in your environment, you really do forget sometimes.

Nearly gotten myself in a lot of trouble that way. When something is just a fact of life for you (especially if it's also a fact of life for those around you), you sometimes forget that you're actually doing something which would land you in hot water if seen by the wrong person, because you're usually not around the "wrong peple." I've had more than one situation where I've done [really shady activity] in public like I was just eating a sandwich and realized "wow, I would've been in deep shit if anyone had seen me do [really shady activity].

Anyway, rerail.

edited 29th Apr '12 10:35:33 PM by Sarkastique

Memento Mori
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#1286: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:31:40 PM

In the case of the Ainu, some Japanese simply and quite literally refuse to acknowledge the fact that the Ainu even exist. I can't remember the sociologist who coined the term "socio-psychological genocide", but it basically means that the dominant population group more or less phases the subordinate or marginal group out of the collective consciousness of the society as a whole. Put plainly, it's just where privileged people pretend that a certain group doesn't matter very much or at all.

Not to sound rude, but if one group has a few thousand members, while another group has over a hundred million members, then, yes, the former group doesn't matter very much in comparison.

setnakhte That's terrifying. from inside your closet Since: Nov, 2010
That's terrifying.
#1287: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:36:25 PM

[up][up]Drugs are normative here, and everyone still knows that they're illegal. tongue

"Roll for whores."
Sarkastique Hey, gorgeous from Baltimore Since: Dec, 2010
Hey, gorgeous
#1288: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:44:22 PM

I more meant I specifically forget, although I know I'm not the only person it happens to. I was just doing that thing where you're actually talking about yourself but for some reason you use the second person (see this is me doing it again), which is a linguistic process I don't really understand even though it's amazingly common.

Memento Mori
Palidane Since: Sep, 2011
#1289: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:50:17 PM

Just replying to the OP, I don't really see the problem here. Like 80% of people in America are white, so logically 80% of people on American shows will be white. We are the majority, so we get the majority representation.

Look, racism exists in everyone, but it's more xenophobia. Discomfort with those who are different from you, which includes race, sex, religion, viewpoints, etc etc. Most game protagonists are male because most gamers are male, and identify with males. I'm not going to throw a hissy fit if I have to play a girl in a game, and I don't know why anyone would. We're all equal, right?

edited 29th Apr '12 10:51:01 PM by Palidane

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#1290: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:52:01 PM

Regarding that last point, the problem is how much of a chicken-or-the-egg scenario it is: namely, does having a largely male audience result in largely male player characters, or do largely male player characters result in a largely male audience?

Sarkastique Hey, gorgeous from Baltimore Since: Dec, 2010
Hey, gorgeous
#1291: Apr 29th 2012 at 10:59:22 PM

I actually don't think it's relevant which came first. At this point, perception is reality, so companies will give women the shaft because they don't think women will buy the games to begin with, and women will buy the games and not say anything because they'd have no games to play otherwise and even if they did complain, nobody would be listening anyway.

It's a status quo that reinforces itself. The solution to a destructive feedback loop is to realize that the whole set of assumptions that underly it are false, and you don't have determine where the circle actually "starts" to do that, and I don't think you could even if you tried.

edited 29th Apr '12 11:00:28 PM by Sarkastique

Memento Mori
Palidane Since: Sep, 2011
#1292: Apr 29th 2012 at 11:01:29 PM

Well, isn't that why we have capitalism? If female gamers are a big enough market, some guy will make the next tomb raider, which will be a sweeping hit with the previously deprived female gamers. Then people will Follow the Leader and make some cheap knock offs of it, and then life continues.

IraTheSquire Since: Apr, 2010
#1293: Apr 29th 2012 at 11:09:27 PM

I think you seemed to have ignored China's very proactive multicultural campaign across the decades ever since the Nationalists, a social campaign and education program which the Communists continued. I am not however suggesting that time does not help but that to state that the Chinese government did nothing to assist would ignore that. You can debate on how effective the campaign was versus just simple time passage.

Well, no, I was not even aware that such campaign existed. My mistake.

setnakhte That's terrifying. from inside your closet Since: Nov, 2010
That's terrifying.
#1294: Apr 29th 2012 at 11:09:28 PM

[up][up]The so-called "free market" fails in this area. The companies must serve the shareholders, who only want them to make games that are guarantied successes. A game appealing to female audiences, without being fundamentally different from male-oriented games in terms of mechanics, would be a very risky bet. Also, do you really think that Lara Croft is a feminist icon?

edited 29th Apr '12 11:09:44 PM by setnakhte

"Roll for whores."
Sarkastique Hey, gorgeous from Baltimore Since: Dec, 2010
Hey, gorgeous
#1295: Apr 29th 2012 at 11:09:38 PM

Well, I have some choice words about free-market mythologizing in general, but yes, in theory, you're correct.

That would fall under the realization that the underlying assumptions game companies make are false.

Edit: Senakhte hit it on the head. Someone is going to realize girls play games eventually, but Sen pretty much nailed why it's going to take awhile.

edited 29th Apr '12 11:11:46 PM by Sarkastique

Memento Mori
IraTheSquire Since: Apr, 2010
#1296: Apr 29th 2012 at 11:13:23 PM

A game appealing to female audiences, without being fundamentally different from male-oriented games in terms of mechanics, would be a very risky bet.

Would it be though? Assuming that it's basically the same only with just a female character or more Mr. Fanservice.

I think part of the mistake is that game companies think that appealing to female audiences would be something related to fashion/make up/shoes/etc, whereas I think that women wouldn't mind playing a FPS just with more Mr. Fanservice.

edited 29th Apr '12 11:14:10 PM by IraTheSquire

Palidane Since: Sep, 2011
#1297: Apr 29th 2012 at 11:14:30 PM

I believe in equality for the sexes, but I don't want to label myself a feminist. I don't know if she should be a feminist icon. I hear some people say she is a strong, active role model that girls should look up to, and some say that she objectifies the female body.

I get your point with investors though. I think that is more of a general problem with the industry rather than sexism. We like to treat every game as a summer blockbuster, with high expectations for a return in profit. Since investors will always take tried and true over innovation, a lot of genres are stuck in a rut.

setnakhte That's terrifying. from inside your closet Since: Nov, 2010
That's terrifying.
#1298: Apr 29th 2012 at 11:21:11 PM

[up][up]Investors don't want any form of risk, they just want to make a quick buck. Also, since it's never been done, and Triple-A games are as expensive as gold-plated hookers made of diamond snorting a thousand grams of Coke an hour, they would regard it as too much of a risk to try.

edited 29th Apr '12 11:24:36 PM by setnakhte

"Roll for whores."
IraTheSquire Since: Apr, 2010
#1299: Apr 29th 2012 at 11:23:58 PM

[up] Not sure if that is even possible, but then again, not every investor is smart.

And again, while the risks are higher, your profit/sales goes higher as you have more customers (you're getting the rest of the 50% of the population to buy your stuff), so my point still stands.

edited 29th Apr '12 11:47:12 PM by IraTheSquire

Palidane Since: Sep, 2011
#1300: Apr 29th 2012 at 11:32:22 PM

I think we kinda need to nail down our demographics here. What do females like in games that males don't like? What do males like in games that females don't like? The only thing I can think of is male/female fanservice. Women evidently don't mind playing with a guy protagonist, and I don't think any intelligent men would have a problem with it. I think a large part of the problem is that Most Video Game Designers Are Male, and that's why we still have stupid stuff like Chainmail Bikinis around. So then we have to ask why don't women get into game design? Well, because not enough of girls play games and have a passion for designing them. Why don't girls play games? I think it's because their is a social stigma to it. A guy who is a gamer is normal, a girl is nerdy or geeky, and is derided by her fellow girls for it. It still isn't socially acceptable.

Just my two cents.


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