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TheGloomer Since: Sep, 2010
#426: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:14:07 PM

Regarding the Irish, would it be completely irrelevant to say that they were not always considered white?

In what context? I'm not denying that it could be a valid point but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the sectarian conflict.

edited 23rd Jan '12 12:14:43 PM by TheGloomer

whaleofyournightmare Decemberist from contemplation Since: Jul, 2011
Decemberist
#427: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:19:12 PM

Weren't the Irish considered to be sub-human because they were mostly Catholic?

Dutch Lesbian
BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#428: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:22:12 PM

I wouldn't go as far as "sub-human" but it is definitely true that they weren't always considered white.

DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#429: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:26:14 PM

[up][up][up] I'm not into the notion of making it last any longer than it has to. The modern idea of dealing with these things is an eternal picking at scabs, and the worst part is, they honestly believe it's a step toward recovery. It's leeching come again.

edited 23rd Jan '12 12:26:38 PM by DomaDoma

Hail Martin Septim!
Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#430: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:28:59 PM

1. Encourage blind hiring - Research shows that removing or covering up identifying information on applicants' resumes and cover letters results in a greater diversity among the pool of interviewees. Likewise, when advertising open positions, state that your company uses blind hiring; this is likely to diversify the initial applicant pool.

I'm curious to hear, regardless of your respective races, how you guys think this practice would affect your chances of landing a job.

You are a blowfish.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#431: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:31:00 PM

Well, considering I'm white, I'm guessing it would hurt my chances of getting a job.

Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#432: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:33:49 PM

Well, considering I'm white, I'm guessing it would hurt my chances of getting a job.

If your chances of getting a job with blind hiring are lower than without it, is it fair to say that minorities are then disadvantaged by normal hiring practices?

You are a blowfish.
BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#433: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:34:00 PM

Wait, blind resumes without a blind interview? That's not going to help that much.

Not that the idea isn't sound but I think the implementation is a bit weak.

whaleofyournightmare Decemberist from contemplation Since: Jul, 2011
Decemberist
#434: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:35:03 PM

Its impossible to have a blind CV iirc because even without a photo, there seems to be a pro white bias in contacting people for interview.

Dutch Lesbian
TheGloomer Since: Sep, 2010
#435: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:35:32 PM

Weren't the Irish considered to be sub-human because they were mostly Catholic?

To some extent, yes, though the Protestant Ascendancy (who were largely Anglicans; it's a source of some dark amusement among historians that for much of the 18th century the Presbyterians were just barely one step above the Catholics in the eyes of the establishment) often took the position that they were mindless slaves of Rome who needed their priests to tell them how and what to think.

I think the more common attitude enforced by the English was that they were civilised while the Irish were uniformly barbarians. That's where the phrase "beyond the pale" comes from.

edited 23rd Jan '12 12:36:49 PM by TheGloomer

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#436: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:36:05 PM

Well, I never said that an unworthy person such as myself deserved a job.

whaleofyournightmare Decemberist from contemplation Since: Jul, 2011
Decemberist
#437: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:39:04 PM

The Pale was the outskirts of Dublin IIRC right?

Dutch Lesbian
Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#438: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:39:09 PM

Well, I never said that an unworthy person such as myself deserved a job.

That isn't what I was getting at. Half of this thread has been complaining that white privilege is imagined, but if you turn it around and propose an equal footing, the lack of privilege becomes apparent to those who have denied its existence all along.

You are a blowfish.
TheGloomer Since: Sep, 2010
#439: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:41:35 PM

The Pale was the outskirts of Dublin IIRC right?

Yeah, it referred to an area immediately around Dublin, beyond which resided the "wild Irish".

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#440: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:41:54 PM

So I say the right answer and get admonished? neat.

Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#441: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:44:17 PM

Admonition? Hardly. I just wanted you to look at it from a different angle.

You are a blowfish.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#442: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:46:59 PM

Well, I am the very very very very bottom of the barrel and currently am only working because the government has decided to have mercy on me. I never expect to have a job after school, so really worse is kind of meaningless.

Clicketykeys Since: Sep, 2010
#443: Jan 23rd 2012 at 12:54:14 PM

I'm curious to hear, regardless of your respective races, how you guys think this practice would affect your chances of landing a job.

Depends on the job. *grin* I'm darn good at what I do, but right now the market is rough. And even if it meant I'd have a reduced chance at being hired, I'd still support it, because I believe equity is a moral responsibility.

Its impossible to have a blind CV iirc because even without a photo, there seems to be a pro white bias in contacting people for interview.

Yes. That's why you have clerical staff copy the CV with identifying information (name, address, etc.) marked out. HR then reviews the "blind" C Vs, chooses the interviewees, and clerical staff sends out the notices.

Vericrat Like this, but brown. from .0000001 seconds ago Since: Oct, 2011
Like this, but brown.
#444: Jan 23rd 2012 at 1:30:54 PM

If blind interview selection based on resume's/applications alone can be done, it should be done just to make sure that that step doesn't include any bias. But I wonder how much different it'll make.

If white people have a privilege at every step of society, it's going to come through in the application. If you get elected to the head of a club in high school, it goes on your resume. I wonder if there's a racial disparity there. If you have had fewer jobs in your past because in previous interviews you were racially discriminated against, it goes on your resume. If you had a poor GPA because teachers weren't as willing to cut you slack, it shows up on your resume.

None of that is to say that those things will always happen. None of it is to say that those things necessarily ever happen. They are examples of how a single colorblind process can't significantly change a system where color does matter. I simply suspect that we could mark out address and name blocks on applications and find ourselves still interviewing *roughly* the same percentage of each race.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. The only way a colorblind society can be created from the one we have today is one step at a time. But we shouldn't lose heart because that first step doesn't seem to do much if anything.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.
Clicketykeys Since: Sep, 2010
#445: Jan 23rd 2012 at 1:59:34 PM

It would definitely be interesting to see what an interview pool looked like after a company began blind reviews, and compare that to the demographics of interview pools before that. I think it'd also have a domino effect - as word got out about more equitable hiring practices, the company might get a more diverse applicant pool to start from.

TheProffesor The Professor from USA Since: Jan, 2011
#446: Jan 23rd 2012 at 2:33:35 PM

Not going to happen. It doesn't seem like good business practice to hire someone blindly.

Vericrat Like this, but brown. from .0000001 seconds ago Since: Oct, 2011
Like this, but brown.
#447: Jan 23rd 2012 at 2:37:23 PM

I don't think it's about hiring people blindly. They would look at an application and resume with name and address redacted, but see everything else. From that they would select interviewees. An interview would happen as normal.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.
DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#448: Jan 23rd 2012 at 2:42:28 PM

I think skill at bullshitting an HR agent comes secondary to a demonstrated ability to do/learn the damn' job, but that's another topic.

Hail Martin Septim!
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#449: Jan 23rd 2012 at 2:56:26 PM

Then again, thinking about it more, blind hiring might help me also. I am quite ugly.

edited 23rd Jan '12 2:56:44 PM by ohsointocats

BlackElephant Obsidian Proboscidean from In the Room Since: Oct, 2011
Obsidian Proboscidean
#450: Jan 23rd 2012 at 3:37:48 PM

If they did blind hiring, I think my portfolio is good enough that I wouldn't have trouble getting a job. My lack of experience might hurt me, though, but maybe the degree and good portfolio might make up for that (probably the degree won't matter as much as the portfolio).

Also, I'm good at answering interview questions.

Of course, if artist jobs are scarce, I might not get the job because there are people out there with more experience.

edited 23rd Jan '12 3:39:33 PM by BlackElephant

I'm an elephant. Rurr.

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