TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The Gun Thread

Go To

JethroQWalrustitty Since: Jan, 2001
#17726: May 9th 2023 at 10:39:55 PM

Alright, I'll concede that the metal detector thing was based on perception, didn't know the exact numbers.

But the school resource officer thing is some real dystopian shit, because the number of mass shootings stopped by them is a around zero (yes you could argue their presence may have passively discouraged some), but they have contributed heavily to the criminalization of young people. Even if your juvenile criminal record is expunged as an adult, being arrested during a school is highly disruptive to academic development and detrimental to future employment, leaving many with little other choice than getting involved in illegal business.

Edited by JethroQWalrustitty on May 9th 2023 at 8:40:27 PM

Imca (Veteran)
#17727: May 10th 2023 at 9:02:28 AM

A) I come from a country that has trained teachers in the use of polearms to stop knife attacks, and it actualy gets results with 3 being stoped the following year after implementation off the top of my head..... So I can see why the Amercians would get the logic here, but I don't think they thought the whole thing trough.

B) Most of what the school resource officers do any way is stuff like break up fistfights and check for drugs, arrests are exceedingly rare, in fact the only one I have ever heard of was a teacher being arrested for selling drugs to the students... they function more like a bouncer then any thing because Amercian highschools have fistfights break out quite often and they need to be broken up before some one needs medical attention.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#17728: May 10th 2023 at 10:20:12 AM

I guess that it's harder to accidentally hurt/kill someone with a polearm than with a gun.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Imca (Veteran)
#17729: May 10th 2023 at 5:27:34 PM

That being one of them yes, the other being the diffrence in implementation.

Numbers mater and the teachers have to be trained and retrained every year, not just one officer and calling it a day.

Not only is such training expensive but once you start getting to firearms over polearms you also start running into reasonable moral objections.

So basicly it's not an idea that carries over the best.

Riverstyx197 Since: May, 2012
#17730: May 10th 2023 at 8:38:47 PM

Just to add, I've also seen numerous news stories about negligent teachers who accidentally left their gun somewhere and a student found it. Thankfully none of them seem to have resulted in anyone getting hurt (to my knowledge at least), but it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Imca (Veteran)
#17731: May 10th 2023 at 9:02:23 PM

I would kinda file that under the training part myself, an important part of weaponry training is what to do with it during the overwhelmingly vast majority of time where your not using it.

But that is still an entirely fair thing to point out.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17733: May 14th 2023 at 10:43:34 AM

I find it depends on how the schools use them. My son's school has a SRO, but he doesn't hassle the kids. Instead, it's more about community trust building. He has a freindly relationship with many of the students, including my son.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17735: May 26th 2023 at 6:45:11 AM

While cooperation between Finland and Sweden makes a lot of sense, 5.56 strikes me as a little old school. Aren't there better options out there now?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Negacube Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#17736: May 26th 2023 at 7:11:50 AM

Most of the novel cartridges I'm familiar with were designed for specific tasks. .300 AAC Blackout for suppressed CQB, 6.8 Remington SPC for unsuppressed CQB, 6.5 Creedmoor for long-range shooting, etc. The USA is going to test the .277 Fury/6.8x51mm SIG Fury next year, but it's not quite proven yet. 5.56 has massive stockpiles and is proven to work, so it's better to stick with they know for now. Maybe they'll adopt a 6mm cartridge later.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17737: May 26th 2023 at 7:15:25 AM

If the new weapon can be adapted for that.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Negacube Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#17738: May 26th 2023 at 7:20:40 AM

True. It's not like you can get .277 Fury into an AR with just a barrel and bolt change like other 6mm wildcat cartridges. They might do what Heckler & Koch did with the HK416 and HK417 and make a larger version for a future cartridge. That said, it would add more expense to the project that I'm not sure deficit hawks would appreciate. Since I am unfamiliar with Finnish or Swedish military doctrine and procurement, I can't say anything for sure.

Edited by Negacube on May 26th 2023 at 10:33:15 AM

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#17739: May 26th 2023 at 12:33:24 PM

Those big cheap stockpiles of STANAG ammo would be very attractive.

Who watches the watchmen?
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#17740: May 28th 2023 at 9:37:32 AM

Came across this entry on our Therapy Is for the Weak page:

A problem among Americans in general. Americans have the legal right to possess firearms — unless diagnosed with certain mental illnesses (depending on the state). This is the reason Republicans support bills sometimes accused of "giving guns to the mentally ill" — it's for the purpose of averting this trope, so that gun owners can address mental health issues they may have without having their firearms stripped from them.

Is this accurate? Or is it missing important context?

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17741: May 28th 2023 at 1:36:04 PM

That's what the Republicans say they are afraid of. I can't speak to the reality, and it probably varies by state.

I will say that "no firearms for the mentally ill" is too broad, discriminatory against the mentally ill, and wouldn't affect more than a tiny fraction of violent crimes, the vast majority of which are committed by people who seem perfectly average.

There is a need to be more specific: People with a history of escalating violence? Check. Maybe even substance abuse problems (though if you include alcohol, you are going to impact a very large number of firearms owners). And people otherwise unable to care for themselves or form independent judgement.

But "Mentally Ill" discriminates against too many people.

Edited by DeMarquis on May 28th 2023 at 4:36:37 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#17742: May 28th 2023 at 1:47:17 PM

Yeah, I'm less interested in the greater context of the nuances of this debate, and more want to know if this specific entry needs rewriting.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17743: May 28th 2023 at 1:51:18 PM

I'll say the reasoning seems a little convoluted: The Republican sponsored bills are averting the trope, and that is why the trope is a problem for the public in general? It's clumsily worded at the very least.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
JethroQWalrustitty Since: Jan, 2001
#17744: May 30th 2023 at 2:09:56 AM

That entry feels pretty shoehorned in. The reasoning for the ban is closer to Insane Equals Violent if anything, but that entry is also just otherwise questionable in my opinion.

RE: Finland and Sweden picking new ammo; we used to not be in NATO, now we are.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17745: May 30th 2023 at 5:18:08 AM

Odds that NATO is going to end up changing their standard rifle ammo, once the US does?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#17746: May 30th 2023 at 6:31:35 AM

No clue at this point. It would depend on how willing they are to adopt new weapon systems.

Who watches the watchmen?
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#17747: May 30th 2023 at 6:33:30 AM

Or how able, NATO budgets and industrial capability on average have atrophied significantly in the last decades.

Oh really when?
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17748: May 30th 2023 at 10:44:29 AM

That trend, at least, seems like it might be reversing.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Imca (Veteran)
#17749: May 30th 2023 at 10:23:08 PM

The problem is that even if it reverses its going to take years and years to recover.

Arms industries don't just appear overnight....

Getting some extra factories for the ukraine war's amunition consumption for instance is suposedly going to take until 2026, and you know the arms industry is rushing that one... you cant sell ammunition that doesn't exist.

Edited by Imca on May 30th 2023 at 10:24:01 AM

vjoi The first Stealth Fighter! from The South. Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Mu
The first Stealth Fighter!
#17750: Jun 19th 2023 at 2:22:48 AM

Its kind a bullshit that those who are prescribed a drug that's completely legal in their state are basically told "no gun rights for you."

Cornelius, but do not waste in useless pity the few moments left in which to escape from the hands of the enemy.

Total posts: 17,933
Top