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Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#226: Jan 26th 2012 at 6:31:35 AM

Surely the only point for having cheap guns for your gang is to use them as a stepping stone to get better ones, by either shooting the owners of them or robbing folks with guns crappy of their cash to get access to better ones?

Not so much, gangs throw away or trade off their weapons constantly, because many of them are hot. Sure, you can use your 1300 dollar kimber 1911 to do driveby shootings, but by keeping it you are at the risk of a routine traffic stop turning into "Hey, this guy has the same weapon noted in that spree of shootings, lets investigate this further"

Those cheap guns are the ones that actually leave the house and get used on people, not the nice ones. Gangbangers know to either throw away or bury a murder weapon at a moments notice. And if you do get arrested for possession of a firearm, then at least you pissed away 300 dollars to get confiscated and not 500+

drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#227: Jan 26th 2012 at 8:20:41 AM

Also, a good many weapons used in crimes are stolen...because the owner is liable for what is done with his firearm whether or not he actually did it. So, good argument for A: registering your guns, B: keeping them securely locked up (exercising "due diligence" in keeping them secure can indemnify you if this issue comes up) and C: reporting them stolen promptly.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#228: Jan 26th 2012 at 9:55:57 AM

Budget guns:

Jennings, Taurus PT-92 and 709 Slim, Kel-Tec PF 9, S&W Sigma, Ruger P95, plus there's certified pre-owend handguns from Sig Sauer and Glock, as well as some others.

Cheap guns are good enough, if that's all you have.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#229: Jan 26th 2012 at 4:47:36 PM

Here's a question I have: Given that straight-pull bolt action rifles exist, why are conventional bolt actions so much more common?

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#230: Jan 26th 2012 at 5:11:42 PM

You mean rotating bolt systems vs straight pull?

Who watches the watchmen?
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#231: Jan 26th 2012 at 5:18:34 PM

Yeah. I couldn't remember the exact term. Is there some particular advantage to rotating bolt designs?

edited 26th Jan '12 5:19:05 PM by Balmung

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#232: Jan 26th 2012 at 5:37:18 PM

I think it has to do with how the bolt seals the breach. That and the rotating bolt design was just more prolific. The Rotating bolt may also be more simple since the bolt rotation is done by firer physically unlocking and rotating bolt via the bolt handle.

Who watches the watchmen?
drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#233: Jan 26th 2012 at 5:50:43 PM

Anyone familiar with shotguns? I'm sort of shopping around for one and was wondering if there was a good competitor to the Big Three (Mossberg, Remington and Ithaca). I wouldn't mind something like this, but the Law says I can't have it (barrel's too short).

Any suggestions? Price is the main object but I do want the thing to work. wink

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#234: Jan 26th 2012 at 5:52:14 PM

Traditional turn-bolts are a lot simpler. You can screw up the reassembly of certain straight-pull designs and end up having the bolt fly back into your face when the weapon is discharged.

It's quite hard to screw that up with a turn-bolt.

Considering the oftentimes conscripted nature of recruits, turn-bolts made a lot more sense. Easy to train on, simple to maintain, less chance of blowing a recruits face off, it's a win-win.

Scrib, Gunbroker might have some pricing info, they have all sorts of stuff for sale. It's like the eBay of firearms.

edited 26th Jan '12 5:53:36 PM by pvtnum11

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
OscarWildecat Bite Me! from The Interwebz Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Bite Me!
#235: Jan 26th 2012 at 6:17:56 PM

[up][up]The hillbilly in me would suggest a double-barreled model. Also, a good huntin' dog.

Meow

edited 26th Jan '12 6:19:32 PM by OscarWildecat

Please spay/neuter your pets. Also, defang your copperheads.
DirectorCannon Since: Nov, 2011
#236: Jan 26th 2012 at 7:18:33 PM

I'll probably just stick to long guns. I've got some M3 airsofts lined up on Amazon, and I've already got the shotguns.

Sidething: Would y'all consider an M1911 with a pearl grip and gold seal flashy?

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#237: Jan 26th 2012 at 7:50:28 PM

Probably.

I mean not as flashy as a custom engraved, gold plated Deagle, but still flashy.

edited 26th Jan '12 7:51:08 PM by Balmung

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#238: Jan 26th 2012 at 8:43:58 PM

Get a Remington 870 if you want a shotgun, that's my vote. Got one of the M870's from a DRMO auction.

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#239: Jan 27th 2012 at 12:45:13 AM

I remember watching an episode of the show that had the one true Coroner, Quincy M.E., where a stolen .22 revolver was shown to be cursed. I lost count of the amounts of fatal shootings it was involved in, and the amounts of dirtbags who it was passed along to, yet the police, when it was recovered from the latest dirtbag to have owned the gun, gave it back to its original owner.

Who was stupid enough to leave in a place where his childers could access it and the older brother shot his younger sister before the cut to black and credits.

My question is, does this reflect reality? If a gun is used in multiple homicides and the original buyer was manifestly incapable of tying his own shoe laces and gets the gun stolen, would he get it back?

DirectorCannon Since: Nov, 2011
#240: Jan 27th 2012 at 4:14:19 AM

Balmung: now, that's just impractical.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#241: Jan 27th 2012 at 7:26:20 AM

^^

For Americans that question depends on the state. Usually if a gun is involved in a crime it takes a loooooong time to get it back, and you'll get it back in shit condition. They have a tendency to send murder weapons to the FBI where they take them apart inch by inch. A cop friend of mine has been involved in a few shootings where he used his personal weapon, and he was pissed that his 1400 dollar kimber 1911 was MIA with the FBI for about 8 months. He said he got it back and it was never the same.

drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#242: Jan 27th 2012 at 8:45:45 AM

@Barkey: Is that the same situation for self-defense type scenarios?

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#243: Jan 27th 2012 at 10:23:11 AM

That much money for a hand gun? Wow. On a police officer's wages. And I was hoping for the answer, no of course it wouldn't happen, that gun would be thrown in the bad fire and the owner would be took for every penny he had.

edited 27th Jan '12 10:29:31 AM by TamH70

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#244: Jan 27th 2012 at 12:55:43 PM

There is no reason to punish the original owner for the actions of a criminal. Even if you secure your fire arm thieves can still find ways to steal them.

Who watches the watchmen?
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#245: Jan 27th 2012 at 1:05:12 PM

Hmm. I don't see it as punishing the owner, I see it as destroying something tainted. Over here, firearms that are taken from criminals are checked for ballistics and then scrapped. The legitimate owners, if any, don't get them back.

That particular gun I was referring to was cursed. And I facepalmed when the cops gave it back to the owner over Quincy's strenous objections. I had a different kind of reaction when the kid shot his sister.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#246: Jan 27th 2012 at 1:17:54 PM

the owner would be took for every penny he had.
Sounds like Punishing the original owner to me.

Like Barkey said it really depends on the state, hell even sometimes the city. In omaha you can get your gun back after the trial is over but you have to prove to can better secure it. You also have to have had first registered your fire arm with the police and reported it stolen as soon as you noticed it was missing.

Who watches the watchmen?
LongGunner15 Since: Dec, 2011
#247: Jan 27th 2012 at 1:23:57 PM

....."tainted"? The weapon itself is no different no matter who uses it. I'm sure you would feel different about personal possessions being taken by the police and destroyed if it were your possessions. I'm not exactly sure how you don't see it as punishing the owner, specifically since you mentioned you don't care about that innocent owner losing his weapon and being out hundreds of dollars, which may not matter to you but for most is quite a sum

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#248: Jan 27th 2012 at 1:24:27 PM

Is there any reason that you seem so familiar with Omaha's gun laws? I mean I live in Omaha and I'm not terrible familiar with them.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#249: Jan 27th 2012 at 1:55:35 PM

Balmung: I live in Omaha and have become reasonably acquainted with the laws regarding firearms ownership. Mostly because I have looked into purchasing a handgun for target shooting and plinking. One of the former guards also did armed guard work and had to go do the whole jumping through hoops with the city to be able to do it. We talked about the various gun laws off and on.

edited 27th Jan '12 1:57:30 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#250: Jan 27th 2012 at 2:01:40 PM

Huh, with that (stated) location, I assumed you lived in Colorado or something.

Due to circumstances (family positions on gun ownership, living on campus, etc), my interest in firearms and how they work and whatnot is substantially greater than the odds of me owning one in the next five to ten years.

edited 27th Jan '12 2:04:51 PM by Balmung


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