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Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#176: Jan 20th 2012 at 9:31:44 AM

Akira, if the anime film was any indication, was primarily an action oriented movie. So the setting is basically not important in the least. I think the execs in charge are operating under the (mistaken) assumption that the audience needs someone to identify with, and that character needs to be similar to them (I'd point you to Wall E and all the various other films like it without a human for evidence) to enjoy a work. While I can understand the excuse for something like the Transformers movies using it to cover the cost, I'll never understand why execs think people go see action movies to identify with the main character.

Akira has action in it, but it's not primarily an action movie. I can see your point for something brainless like... anything that has Chris Evans in it, but Akira was primarily about will to power, individuality, and responsibility to fellow man. Not groundbreaking themes, but Akira did it well, and did it poignantly.

While none of this is to say that not being faithful to the characters' ethnicity will ruin the movie's point, I concur with what was said earlier in the thread about how it's ridiculous to piggyback on the popularity of the existing franchise and change its setting in totality. Wouldn't it feel silly if the Japanese set out to remake The Lord of the Rings in Japan but kept the English name and the references to Germanic mythology?

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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#177: Jan 20th 2012 at 10:36:32 AM

Difference is that The Lord Of The Rings doesn't make sense outside of its setting, since it's both a travelouge and a story about major shifts in geo-political power; the setting makes the story. Akira's story, on the other hand, could be set in almost any extremely-large city and require very few changes.

Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#178: Jan 20th 2012 at 10:44:23 AM

Considering The Lord of the Rings was filmed in New Zealand, I'm afraid I don't know why Japan would be an inadequate setting. They have mountains and they have mines, and it's the places relations to one another rather than to our own world that matter. Akira, on the other hand, owes a lot of its setting to the fear of the nuclear holocaust, which must have been understood very differently in Japan than in any other place following Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

You are a blowfish.
Drakyndra Her with the hat from Somewhere Since: Jan, 2001
Her with the hat
#179: Jan 20th 2012 at 10:47:30 AM

[up][up]See, that's interesting, because while I've never seen or read Akira myself, every person I've known who has has said the story is clearly influenced by the nuclear bombing of Japan in WW 2, and how Japan changed and developed after the war. Which is something that is uniquely Japanese.

edited 20th Jan '12 10:48:04 AM by Drakyndra

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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#180: Jan 20th 2012 at 11:17:29 AM

[up][up] Question, did you mean filmed in Japan or set in Japan? 'Cause I'd have no problem with a Lord Of The Rings adaptation filmed in Japan using Japanese actors, but setting the story in Japan would make no sense. How can you make The Lord Of The Rings work without thousands of miles to walk across, conveniently placed mountain ranges, large communities of dwarves, elves, hobbits, and talking trees, ancient kingdoms with bizarre rights of succession, and a volcano in the middle of a desert that's covered in perpetual darkness?

[up] The author of Akira was probably influenced by Japanese history to a greater or lesser extent, and people have read a lot of subtext on that topic into the story, but Akira makes no explicit references to Japan's post-WWII rebuilding (at least in the anime movie; I haven't read the whole manga yet). It's kinda like how people watch Night Of The Living Dead and, because it was made/set in The '60s and has a black protagonist trying to lead a group of white people, they view it as a commentary on race relations of the time period. But you could set Night Of The Living Dead in modern times with a different ethnic makeup to the cast, and, aside from some adjustments to account for changes in technology, you'd barely have to change the script. Yes, the subtext would be different, but subtext by its very nature is an ephemeral thing; it'll be at least slightly different depending on who you ask about it, and something as small as an actor reading a line in a slightly different way can send it hurtling in new directions.

Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#181: Jan 20th 2012 at 11:28:04 AM

I meant filmed with Japanese actors, despite its myriad Germanic references. I wouldn't see anything wrong with the story being transplanted to a Japanese fantasy setting, but it would have to be accompanied with name changes and allusions to Japanese history and mythology. Neo Manhattan with white protagonists can be a setting for a great Akira-esque story, but not for Akira. That's all I'm trying to say.

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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#182: Jan 20th 2012 at 11:36:47 AM

Eh, a Japanese guy named Frodo makes as much sense as a European guy named Frodo. Now, if the Japanese actors were portraying actual ancient Germanic people, that might be a little weird, but if they're portraying the denizens of a Constructed World than I don't see the issue.

As for the names in Akira, bear in mind that they don't even have a finished shooting script yet; the characters' names may very well be changed by the time filming actually starts. But even if they're not, I wouldn't mind: long as characters' names are cool, their lack of realism doesn't bother me much. Besides, the movie's set in the future, and Japanese culture always seems to be a lot more prominent in sci-fi futures.

And even if you don't like non-Japanese characters having Japanese names, that's still no reason to diss the title. The title comes from the name of a character in the backstory: so long as that character is of Japanese descent or has a good reason to have a code name, then it's just as valid a title as in the original.

edited 20th Jan '12 11:42:33 AM by RavenWilder

Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#183: Jan 20th 2012 at 11:52:55 AM

I'm not dissing the title. I'm dissing Hollywood using the title to profit off of a story that it does not intend to be faithful to.

Names, races, and places in LOTR are heavily steeped in Norse mythology. The Middle Earth is pretty much a direct translation of Midgard. Gandalf is inspired by Odin. The elves are proxies for the Vanir. The ring motif comes from the Volsunga Saga. I don't know enough about Japanese mythology to resolutely say that there aren't any cognates, but from what I do know, there do not seem to be.

Also, Frodo is actually an English approximation of Frodo's real name. [1]

edited 20th Jan '12 11:55:26 AM by Gwirion

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breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#184: Jan 20th 2012 at 12:03:50 PM

I'm not feeling this Japanese LOTR is working well as an analogy considering everything that we're already butchering to make it "Japanese". It leaves very little that resembles the original work and you might as well say that you merely used LOTR as a significant reference.

Gwirion Since: Jan, 2011
#185: Jan 20th 2012 at 12:08:03 PM

Which seems to be exactly what they're doing with the film version of Akira, hence the analogy.

You are a blowfish.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#186: Jan 20th 2012 at 12:09:02 PM

There's plenty in Akira to be faithful to beyond its setting. So long as its set in an incredibly huge, crime-ridden city that's been rebuilt following a nuclear war/psychic disaster, I'd say they've got everything that really matters about the setting covered.

And, as you said, stuff in The Lord Of The Rings is a "translation" of, "inspired" by, or "proxies" of Germanic mythology. So why can't those Germanic mythological figures inspire and translate into proxies who happen to look Japanese? Would that affect the story or the characters in any real way?

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#187: Jan 20th 2012 at 2:55:50 PM

But we are not saying that LOTR is german mythology, merely inspired by. Thus if you want a movie to be Akira, it has to be Akira. What you are creating is a movie inspired by Akira but is not the same. You can racebend after that, since it's technically a new (if somewhat derivative) work.

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#188: Jan 20th 2012 at 3:03:41 PM

Adaptations can change plenty of things without being so changed that they're a completely new property (as long as LOTR was brought up, let's use that as an example... I read the books at least 10 times before the movies ever came out so I know this pretty well, trust me they changed plenty.)

So I just want to get this clear exactly what you're saying, Breadloaf. If the only thing they changed about the story was the city it was set in and the race of the characters... everything else was exactly the same... in your opinion, then, it's still not Akira?

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Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#189: Jan 20th 2012 at 3:38:44 PM

Well consider the threat of nuclear war was a big factor in Cold War America, setting the movie in a post nuclear-war scenario (one with the Soviets) would make sense.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#190: Jan 20th 2012 at 3:46:05 PM

That's hard for me to say because I'm not an Akira expert. But it holds the potential of being so.

If I made a movie that said "Doom" and it wasn't on Mars, is it still Doom?

SKJAM Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#191: Jan 20th 2012 at 4:22:00 PM

Since we're off on that tangent, things that would be different if Akira the live action movie is set in Neo-Manhattan rather than Neo-Tokyo....

The connotations of people believing that a nuclear weapon was used on their city. "Did happen" versus "could have happened."

The brief glimpse we get of the school system.

The religious fervor that springs up around the mysterious "Akira"; in the original, it takes its motifs from the Shinto-Buddhist mix of Japan; the manifestation in mostly Judeo-Christian New York City would presumably differ greatly.

The role of the U.S. Navy. There simply is no nation whose naval forces would have the same connotations to the US as American ships to the Japanese.

The very connotations of the name "Akira". It's an actual name with a meaning in Japanese, not so much in English. (OTOH, that bit went right over most Americans' heads with the manga and anime, so not really a big loss by Hollywood thinking.

pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#192: Jan 20th 2012 at 5:50:21 PM

I'm disappointed that the live-action adaptation won't be faithful to the details. What else will they take carte blanche with, when all is said and done?

I'm totally okay with minority actors and actresses getting lots of screentime. By leaving it to just whites, they're only depriving themselves of a huge amount of potential talent. Their loss... our loss.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
SKJAM Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#193: Jan 20th 2012 at 6:48:22 PM

When even an innocuous, feel-good movie like Red Tails is delayed in production because George Lucas can't get funding due to his crazy insistence that a movie about the heroic Tuskegee Airmen should be about the Tuskegee Airmen being heroic, rather than about the noble and conflicted white officer who teaches/inspires the Tuskegee Airmen to heroism—there's a problem.

When Neil Gaiman has to pull the plug (temporarily) on a film adaptation of Anansi Boys because the studio execs wanted to make the main characters white because "black people don't go to fantasy movies", there's a problem.

And then there's Danny Glover's movie about Haitian history that's having trouble getting funding because there isn't a white viewpoint character...there's a problem all right.

But while Hollywood execs don't have to get better, I'd like to point out that you can do well by doing good.

Case in point: Back in the early 1970s, the Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul) had a thriving local theater scene. This included quite a few talented actors of color. Problem was, these performers rarely got cast in anything that didn't absolutely require a particular skin tone, and even then some of the theater companies would go with heavy makeup or a Race Lift instead.

Yes, there was one "black" theatrical company, that put on plays by black authors for primarily black audiences. But they suffered rather obviously from being stereotyped as "theater for black people", so talent scouts from the larger cities didn't come around. Plus, there were more black actors than slots at this single company, and if you were Native American, Asian-American, the more "ethnic-looking" Hispanic-American etc. actor, you were plumb out of luck.

The actors, even many white ones, realized this was bullshit. So the Mixed Blood Theater company was born, with a mission to aggressively pursue multiracial casting, and often outright colorblind casting. They also sought out new and interesting plays that would work well with multiracial casting. (One of these, the Warp Trilogy, includes an all time favorite line: "But if Lord Chaos destroys the universe, where will he live?")

There were missteps and bad productions, but overall the progressive nature of the company served it well and it got big audiences, critical acclaim and lots of awards. And Mixed Blood is still going strong these days, even though the Twin Cities theater scene itself has shed much of its former paleness preference.

Culex3 They think me mad Since: Jan, 2012
They think me mad
#194: Jan 21st 2012 at 9:08:05 AM

AKIRA wouldn't have the same context if it was set somewhere other than Tokyo.

to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee
Flyboy Decemberist from the United States Since: Dec, 2011
Decemberist
#195: Jan 21st 2012 at 9:19:08 AM

When even an innocuous, feel-good movie like Red Tails is delayed in production because George Lucas can't get funding due to his crazy insistence that a movie about the heroic Tuskegee Airmen should be about the Tuskegee Airmen being heroic, rather than about the noble and conflicted white officer who teaches/inspires the Tuskegee Airmen to heroism—there's a problem.

The fuck is this shit?

Red Tails looked great in the trailer, too. Fucking Hollywood.

Edit: Alright, I've never heard of, seen, or read this AKIRA thingy before now, but they cast Kirsten Stewart in what appears to be a leading role? Shit, dude, I'd be mad too, I bet, if I were a fan of this...

edited 21st Jan '12 9:22:01 AM by Flyboy

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."
Culex3 They think me mad Since: Jan, 2012
They think me mad
#196: Jan 21st 2012 at 9:31:00 AM

[up] I love AKIRA and if I had any expectations at all for the film I'd be furious about that casting choice.

to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee
SKJAM Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#197: Jan 21st 2012 at 9:56:02 AM

Mr. Lucas, after over a decade of the money people balking, metaphorically said "screw this, I'm just going to use my own money, and if I go broke, so be it." So Red Tails is now in theaters without resorting to making a White Male Lead the central character.

Flyboy Decemberist from the United States Since: Dec, 2011
Decemberist
#198: Jan 21st 2012 at 10:00:33 AM

Well, I was on the fence about seeing that movie, but not anymore. cool

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."
wuggles (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#199: Jan 21st 2012 at 10:07:39 AM

To me that speaks volumes about Hollywood's view on race. That freakin George Lucas can't get a movie made with an all-black cast.

Sparkysharps Since: Jan, 2001
#200: Jan 21st 2012 at 1:13:35 PM

[up] The fact that the execs were more against the black cast than the fact that George Lucas's name would be attached to it speaks even more.

... Okay, that was bad potshot.


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