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rumetzen Since: Jan, 2010
#1: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:51:41 PM

Hey, why not? Who's interested?

Exelixi Lesbarian from Alchemist's workshop Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Lesbarian
#2: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:54:03 PM

Why? Mtg is basically tropes: the card.game, as Maro freely talks about.

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
rumetzen Since: Jan, 2010
#3: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:55:41 PM

Because it's fun and a good way to kill time? Who said it had to have anything to do with tropes?

Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#4: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:58:52 PM

Magic is a very flawed game and could be improved a lot. However, every time I try and design a card game I come to the conclusion that for all the differences it's just too close to Magic.

Magic might not be perfect, but it's surprisingly close.

edited 15th Jan '12 9:59:19 PM by Nyktos

I guess it is.
Exelixi Lesbarian from Alchemist's workshop Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Lesbarian
#5: Jan 15th 2012 at 10:09:36 PM

NYC: it's hard impossible to make a game that remains both balanced and fun over twenty years. Any flaws as such aren't issues in design so much as issues in being older than most of its players.

edited 15th Jan '12 10:10:29 PM by Exelixi

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Jan 16th 2012 at 9:44:00 AM

I had an idea for a card came base around building a fortress around a single powerful creature with another fortress and then a battlefield between the two as they fought to break into the other's fortress and kill the other's uber-creature.

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#7: Jan 16th 2012 at 9:15:30 PM

I'd be down, I've been a card game player for over a decade now.

Pokemon*

-> Yu-gi-oh * -> Magic*.

Also I'd love to see a card game with a speed mechanic :3

edited 16th Jan '12 9:16:07 PM by Vyctorian

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Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#8: Jan 17th 2012 at 4:09:32 PM

@Exelixi: No, there are actual flaws in the design. Maro has defended mana screw because it means it's never impossible to lose, but let's be honest, when you win a game because your opponent gets mana screwed you don't get any satisfaction from it. Several proposed systems keep a similar resource system but avoid mana screw; none of them would work for Magic as-is but if the game was designed around them they could be implemented.

There are other things, though most are small. A better understanding of which abilities are strong (card drawing) and which are not (lifegain) would allow a better balance between the colours from the beginning. Maro has mentioned that he wishes instant were a supertype, which I agree with. Different legendary creatures that represent the same character annihilating each other could be supported. I could probably come up with other things I'd change if I were to "reboot" Magic, but even with all those changes it'd still be far too close to sell as a different game.

Trying to create a game that's suitably different is difficult. Magic is quite close to the simplest implementation of the TCG. More or less every TCG has a resource system, creatures, noncreature permanents, and nonpermanent spells. Magic uses two types each for the latter two, true, and it doesn't have the simplest resource system in the world, but it doesn't have a very complicated one either. Other things like the basics of combat, life totals, etc, are also in many many games. Magic has very few core rules that feel like they could be eliminated; there's no gimmick. And thus it's hard to make a game with no gimmick that doesn't step on some toes.

If someone has an original, non-gimmicky, idea for a TCG which doesn't look infinitely inferior to Magic, awesome. But I've spent a long time trying to come up with one, and it really is hard. I've tried a number of TCGs in my time, and invariably the more Magic-like they were the better they were.

That's not to mention that many of the better gimmicky ideas have also been done by Magic in variants like Planechase, Vanguard, and Commander.

edited 17th Jan '12 4:17:52 PM by Nyktos

I guess it is.
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#9: Jan 17th 2012 at 4:20:11 PM

So any plans for this card game. I personally am fond of the idea that whatever our creatures or monsters having their own cost pool in order to use items/equipment/artifact whatever we'd call them.

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Tinweasel Relentlessly Negative from Somewhere Or Other Since: Jan, 2001
Relentlessly Negative
#10: Jan 19th 2012 at 8:57:09 PM

I wanted to talk about the need for a starting resource pool greater than zero, combat with a full-on speed mechanic instead of just First/Double Strike, the option to convert the cards you have on hand into less awesome resources if your specialized resource cards don't appear, and a ton of tropey references... but then I realized I was just talking about a game that already crashed and burned due to atrocious mismanagement. (I'm not sure how Arcane Tinmen's revival attempt is working out for it.)

As for things mentioned in this thread that I'm not proposing to outright steal, I am a fan of Victorian's idea of having the goons equip themselves with their own money. It could actually be used as a balancing factor - for instance, goons who are otherwise resource inefficient could have a high Funds stat allowing them to use awesome equipment while the otherwise really efficient ones are flat broke, or a goon who gets a bonus based on equipment would be restricted by his own Funds to prevent him from being built up into an unkillable deathstar.

edited 19th Jan '12 9:01:16 PM by Tinweasel

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#11: Jan 19th 2012 at 9:36:44 PM

Another thing is I'd love more specific items/equips/ectra. It makes no sense for a Halfling or some creature to wield "Giant's Axe", or a non-vampire gaining a boost from "blood vial". Yu Gi Oh kinda has this much going for it but I'd say they are too limited in it's usually all linked to one card , instead of one type of card.

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Vree Since: Jan, 2001
#12: Jan 20th 2012 at 6:14:05 AM

I've been into two online trading card games recently: Mytheria and Tyrant (do a search). Both have their good points.
Mytheria is unique, easy and fun. It merges creature card health and attack into a single trait and allows one extra ability per card. It does not have "Land" cards but instead allows you to choose whether to draw a new card into your hand or raise the power you can spend on summoning stronger cards.
Tyrant does not use Land or power points to summon cards, instead each card has a countdown number based on its strenght, representing the number of turns it has to wait before it becomes active. This basically makes the game a contest between rush decks and heavy decks - with enough quick cards you can devastate the opponents' cards before they become active, but if you do not make it in time the enemy will own your ass. Another weakness of this is that the player who goes first has the advantage. Tyrant also features various skills for each card and once you're strong enough to make clever combinations this indeed results in interesting matches as it's not so easy to figure out how to beat a good combination.
Another game from Mytheria's creator was Armor Wars - it only bears mention because it has a good mechanic to avoid who-goes-first issues: the starting player can not attack on his first turn. Because Armor Wars is creature heavy that indeed fixes the balance.

At any rate, what I'm saying it that I could see this be fun. There is a lot of stuff you could do with trading card games.

Circeus Since: Jan, 2001
#13: Feb 26th 2012 at 1:48:32 PM

There IS already a TvTrope card game, albeit not complete. It's TV Tropes The Trading Card Game and the forum discussion is here. It was mostly abandonned sometime last summer, however. I've gotten on it in the last few days, having just discovered it, and am reworking it into something more cogent, but keeping things mostly as is (The current system for character is messy and counterintuitive, and I think there are too many unneeded card types).

Also Vree, I totally know what that icon is from. Tee hee.

edited 26th Feb '12 1:50:07 PM by Circeus

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#14: Feb 26th 2012 at 2:15:36 PM

[up]I think this is more we make a card game in general not we make card game for Tv Tropes.

edited 26th Feb '12 2:17:12 PM by Vyctorian

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