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How important are villains to you?

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gingerninja666 SCH-NEIGH-ZEL from Aboard The Damocles Since: Aug, 2009
SCH-NEIGH-ZEL
#1: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:08:24 PM

I'm a guy who's completely obsessed with villains. I more often than not CAN'T watch/read/play something unless it has an awesome antagonist. There are obviously some exceptions.

A personal theory of mine is: "A film is only as good as its villain" [lol]

I never enjoy watching the protagonists be cool for some reason (and it slightly annoys me when people go on about how cool the hero is). I just... CARE about them a lot less than I care about the villains. This opinion of mine has greatly confused a lot of people on this very forum. XD

I was just wondering how important the antagonist is when YOU watch/read/play something?

edited 13th Jan '12 5:08:47 PM by gingerninja666

"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#2: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:10:16 PM

Depends on the genre. If it's slice of life not really. There's no one we can really call a villain in Mari Mite for example. I guess you could pin a certain character or two for this week's episode but honestly? There isn't one. An epic without a villain or some form of obstacle is like tea without water. IT IS NOTHING.

And how the bloody hell could you have horror without one?

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#3: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:10:23 PM

I'd say they are important to me, especially if the protagonist ends up being a whiny fool or otherwise unlikable.

And that's why I always root for Quaritch in Avatar; Jake was just a fleshy phallus.

edited 13th Jan '12 5:10:29 PM by MarkVonLewis

Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#4: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:13:07 PM

I really wish they had done more to make the marines more likable in that film. As it was they were doing all in their power to turn them into assholes. Hell if you didn't read the additional crap behind the film you might not even know the Earth is a dying rock. Which makes the human's just look like greedy assholes.

WHICH IS BAD.

Really Avatar is just "Look at the pretty planet" in movie form. I like bio-luminescence a lot.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#5: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:14:35 PM

Yeah, that's why I hated the Na'vi. Cameron went out of his way to make them so perfect, and humanity so vile. So just to spite the man, I root for humans all the time.

In my mind, the movie was a tale of an epic last stand of some Marines, doing their job till the end in the face of hordes of Xenos scum.

edited 13th Jan '12 5:15:12 PM by MarkVonLewis

Legionnaire The Leading Man from Australia Since: Oct, 2010
The Leading Man
#6: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:16:32 PM

I wish Quaritch had been played by Michael Biehn.

Against all tyrants.
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#7: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:17:11 PM

I'd like the Na'Vi more if they weren't portrayed as perfect and right in everything damn near. And if they seemed more like a genuine culture to me. Tolkien went out of his way to make his cultures feel real and unique. Cameron...meh. Least it's pretty I guess...

This is off topic though.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#8: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:18:28 PM

Indeed it is, I'm sorry for the derail.

On topic, villains are as important as the heroes in stories. Both need to be interesting, in my opinion.

pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#9: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:21:20 PM

An antagonist is very important to the story, save for slice of life or man vs. wild stories.

You need a protagonist of some sort, a goal, and an obstacle to that goal. A good antagonist drives the story by pushing back on the protagonist and providing that obstacle to the goal.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
Haldo Indecisive pumpkin from Never never land Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Indecisive pumpkin
#10: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:21:50 PM

Not all stories have to have villains, but I think they can add a lot to a story, when used right.

For example: I love Friendship Is Magic, and I think the Discord episodes were two of the coolest ones, but I love the other ones, too.

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.
HellmanSabian Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
#11: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:29:19 PM

As it has been said, not all stories automatically need a villian. When the do, it is a damn good idea to make them a good one or you may find your story falling short.

gingerninja666 SCH-NEIGH-ZEL from Aboard The Damocles Since: Aug, 2009
SCH-NEIGH-ZEL
#12: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:33:04 PM

[up][up] Friendship is Magic is one of the Exceptions that I mentioned [lol]

btw: yes, Discord was awesome

What I also meant to ask: How much do you focus on villains when they actually ARE in the film? I, for one, barely ever care about the heroes. XD

edited 13th Jan '12 5:33:53 PM by gingerninja666

"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#13: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:37:39 PM

Indeed we muſt finde the villeins moſte bakward and unſavoury folk, lacking in virtue and prone to vulgarity; nontheleſs, twould be moſte unwise to under-eſtimmate their importanse as workerse pon whiche the nobillity lise, performeing those labours unſuitible for us.

edited 13th Jan '12 5:38:22 PM by Pykrete

gingerninja666 SCH-NEIGH-ZEL from Aboard The Damocles Since: Aug, 2009
SCH-NEIGH-ZEL
#14: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:42:39 PM

[up] Really? Villainous Valour is one of my favourite tropes [lol]

"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#15: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:43:18 PM

For my answer to the thread's question, please refer to about 0:47 in the following clip:

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.
TheDeadMansLife Lover of masks. Since: Nov, 2009
Lover of masks.
#16: Jan 13th 2012 at 5:59:55 PM

I almost always like the villian more than the hero. I wanted to work for an evil empire. They always get the coolest uniforms.

Please.
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#17: Jan 13th 2012 at 6:11:18 PM

On a serious note, I'm usually happy as long as neither the villain nor protagonist are completely stupid about going about their business. The best climaxes are the ones that come down to the wire after all.

Really though, making sure the protagonist is likable and respectable is vastly more important. They're the ones you're looking at for most of the story after all.

gingerninja666 SCH-NEIGH-ZEL from Aboard The Damocles Since: Aug, 2009
SCH-NEIGH-ZEL
#18: Jan 13th 2012 at 6:15:33 PM

[up] Bizzarely, it doesn't work like that for me. I care about the Side characters and the Antagonists MUCH more than I care about the heroes. I think the fact that we spend so much time with them leads me to become bored with them more often than not (no matter how good they're written) [lol]

Y'know people say: "A villain is just someone for the hero to defeat"?

Well for ME, it's "A hero is just someone for the villain to lose to" [lol]

"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel
Kraken Since: Jun, 2012
#19: Jan 13th 2012 at 6:40:41 PM

Villains are an endanger species!

They must be protected!

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#20: Jan 13th 2012 at 7:24:33 PM

I care about the Side characters and the Antagonists MUCH more than I care about the heroes.

I find I do too, but more as a byproduct of the protagonist having such a massive tendency to be so aggravatingly bland and one-dimensional.

feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#21: Jan 13th 2012 at 7:45:09 PM

I like villains who don't realize they're the villains, always justifying their actions through either pragmatism or twisted morality.

(Come to think of it, some of my favorite villains could have been heroes twenty years ago, although I wouldn't root for them in such a context.)

edited 13th Jan '12 7:46:37 PM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
gingerninja666 SCH-NEIGH-ZEL from Aboard The Damocles Since: Aug, 2009
SCH-NEIGH-ZEL
#22: Jan 13th 2012 at 7:51:42 PM

[up] I think you'll find that, outside of Card Carrying Villains, there aren't THAT many villains who honestly thinkk that they're villains.

Well Intentioned Extremists and Knight Templars are two of my favourite types of villain

"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel
Ramus Lead. from some computer somwhere. Since: Aug, 2009
Lead.
#23: Jan 13th 2012 at 8:25:47 PM

The best villains are ones that are just flat out evil and do it for the lols, or you know, just because they can. Now granted, every once in a while I don't mind a sympathetic or tragic villain since they can be quite interesting, but they have limitations. Someone who's clearly dicking around is going to be able to pull off far more awesome, hilariously villainous stuff.

Feel free to replace awesome and hilariously with horrifying and brutally where needed.

The emotions of others can seem like such well guarded mysteries, people 8egin to 8elieve that's how their own emotions should 8e treated.
feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#24: Jan 14th 2012 at 1:08:40 AM

Someone who's clearly dicking around is going to be able to pull off far more awesome, hilariously villainous stuff.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean—are you thinking of villains like Discord? (His type doesn't have to be evil, and I think they're more interesting if they're completely divorced from normal morality.)

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#25: Jan 14th 2012 at 12:25:45 PM

I've yet to watch MLP myself, so I can't answer that, but when I read that I immediately thought of Dr. Doofenschmirtz.

edited 14th Jan '12 12:26:32 PM by 0dd1

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

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