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0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#26: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:42:58 AM

So scam artists can't work hard at their trade?

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#27: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:43:43 AM

@thefran - Wait, he is? How?

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
thefran Easily Amused from a microwave oven Since: Oct, 2011
#28: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:57:50 AM

Loophole Abuse. There's a German law I don't fully understand, but it has something to do with insurance claims and filing for bankruptcy.

Direct a shitty move to make it flop horribly theatrically, file a bankruptcy claim, repeat, acquire infinite money.

His "serious" films like The Stoic are incredibly meh and run on gross-out. He has nothing interesting to say is what I'm talking about.

If you don't want to tell me a story, you shouldn't really try selling me any work of culture at all.

STEALTH!!!
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#29: Jan 2nd 2012 at 4:59:52 AM

Hey, "creative" doesn't necessarily equate to "good," "legitimate," or "interesting."

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.
thefran Easily Amused from a microwave oven Since: Oct, 2011
#30: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:09:10 AM

No, nothing creative involved.

STEALTH!!!
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#31: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:11:25 AM

Hey, everything's got artistic merit, no matter how crappy it is or inartistic the motive for making it was.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.
thefran Easily Amused from a microwave oven Since: Oct, 2011
#32: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:13:14 AM

everything's got artistic merit
no

STEALTH!!!
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#33: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:15:14 AM

Believe it. Even all you get out of a work is what NOT to do, you're still getting something out of it. Thus, it has merit.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.
CommanderObvious intellectual rapist from Unmei no Itaru Basho Since: Jul, 2011
intellectual rapist
#34: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:23:40 AM

learning from a mistake != artistic merit

This level of trolling is reasonable for Commander Obvious. What do you think of this, everyone?
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#35: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:30:21 AM

I'd say it is.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.
LEMadness Nose-Chan from Florida Since: Mar, 2011
Nose-Chan
#36: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:43:11 AM

I think that's a rather bizarre way off looking at art. Sure, it exists as a work of art (in which it was crafted, quality aside), but merit would imply that it's good art. I'm pretty sure that Uwe Boll has never reached so much as a mile away from that distinction. I would say his slip-shod work hits around a thousand miles away from 'good'.

I agree that it's a display of what not to do, if that's any consolation.

edited 2nd Jan '12 5:45:32 AM by LEMadness

Words, words, words.
CommanderObvious intellectual rapist from Unmei no Itaru Basho Since: Jul, 2011
intellectual rapist
#37: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:48:01 AM

im part of the school of thought that everything is art
however
Plan 9 From Outer Space is a hilarious film but i do not see it as a work with artistic merit
same with that terrible german filmmaker

learning from mistakes is not a reason to call it having artistic merit
artistic merit is used as a term for "judgment of their perceived quality or value as works of art" (Wikipedia)
basically whether it has aesthetic value and has merit as an art piece
uwe boll films while painfully hilarious does not have artistic merit

edited 2nd Jan '12 5:50:32 AM by CommanderObvious

This level of trolling is reasonable for Commander Obvious. What do you think of this, everyone?
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#38: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:50:06 AM

I wouldn't say that merit is something that only necessarily comes from good works, though I will say there is always some good in something bad.

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CommanderObvious intellectual rapist from Unmei no Itaru Basho Since: Jul, 2011
intellectual rapist
#39: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:51:01 AM

that is not artistic merit
that is learning from someone else's mistake
or laughing your ass off from So Bad, It's Good

edited 2nd Jan '12 5:51:37 AM by CommanderObvious

This level of trolling is reasonable for Commander Obvious. What do you think of this, everyone?
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#40: Jan 2nd 2012 at 5:58:57 AM

Well maybe I'm just using the wrong word then.

And something good in something bad doesn't necessarily have to be unintentional hilarity or learning from that person's mistakes. Take the Sgt. Pepper movie for example. That is a craptacular movie. But what are some really good things in it? How about the musical numbers from Earth Wind And Fire and Aerosmith?

Or let's also take an effort actually from The Beatles, the Magical Mystery Tour TV special. As a whole, it's a painfully dull film. But, the individual songs throughout the movie are some of the band's best. ("I Am the Walrus", anyone?) And clearly there must be some good filmmaking principles to learn from it, as among the people to cite that film as an influence are Steven Spielberg and George Lucas.

edited 2nd Jan '12 6:00:19 AM by 0dd1

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CommanderObvious intellectual rapist from Unmei no Itaru Basho Since: Jul, 2011
intellectual rapist
#41: Jan 2nd 2012 at 6:06:13 AM

both works are fundamentally different from uwe boll's terrible films
both films are seen as bizarre arthouse films
that are trippy and have fantastic music
and definitely have artistic merit even if theyre almost unwatchable

This level of trolling is reasonable for Commander Obvious. What do you think of this, everyone?
Solstace Hexachordal Combinatorial from the Second Viennese School Since: Dec, 1969
Hexachordal Combinatorial
#42: Jan 2nd 2012 at 6:09:16 AM

You guys are acting like "artistic merit" is a term with an agreed upon definition by people who study art for a living.

Hell, there's a branch of academics that argue that "artistic merit" doesn't exist, and that all perceived "artistic merit" is, is psychology applied to aesthetic value.

In other words, this current argument in terms of who is right and who is wrong is totally pointless.

edited 2nd Jan '12 6:14:12 AM by Solstace

Ecstasy is Sustained Intensity
juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#43: Jan 2nd 2012 at 6:20:04 AM

In other words, this current argument in terms of who is right and who is wrong is totally pointless.

has there been a non-pointless (Pointful?) argument here ever?

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
LEMadness Nose-Chan from Florida Since: Mar, 2011
Nose-Chan
#44: Jan 2nd 2012 at 6:26:17 AM

[up][up]Even if individual tastes can make works subjective, they still rely on design principles to give them a sense of quality to more than a select few. Sure, emotional things can be subjective, but things like glaring plot holes or poor technique are not.

At the base of the art world, you have to prove that you have technical prowess before getting into any of the subjective stuff. At least, 90% of the time, anyway. You'd have to be a really lucky or a really rich bastard to slip through the cracks without that foundation.

edited 2nd Jan '12 6:29:12 AM by LEMadness

Words, words, words.
AtticusFinch read from You Since: Mar, 2011
read
#45: Jan 2nd 2012 at 6:34:13 AM

I see it like food. Sure, no matter how you make a cake, it will always be a cake, but what you do to make it a cake will certainly change how it tastes.

oddly
LEMadness Nose-Chan from Florida Since: Mar, 2011
Nose-Chan
#46: Jan 2nd 2012 at 6:42:47 AM

With cake, you can horribly burn a cake to the point of being inedible. Unless you like things that are burnt to a crip, but I don't know a whole lot of people who like food burnt to the core.

edited 2nd Jan '12 6:43:19 AM by LEMadness

Words, words, words.
AtticusFinch read from You Since: Mar, 2011
read
#47: Jan 2nd 2012 at 6:43:18 AM

Much like you can totally ruin a story.

oddly
LEMadness Nose-Chan from Florida Since: Mar, 2011
Nose-Chan
#48: Jan 2nd 2012 at 6:43:40 AM

Hooray! Agreement!

Words, words, words.
juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#49: Jan 2nd 2012 at 6:47:47 AM

At the base of the art world, you have to prove that you have technical prowess before getting into any of the subjective stuff. At least, 90% of the time, anyway. You'd have to be a really lucky or a really rich bastard to slip through the cracks without that foundation.

Not really, no. In fact, most of the time, technical prowess is hardly rewarded. The best cameramen, the best guitar players, etc, are often just enjoyed by connosseiurs.

In the world of art, much like in the world of economy, timing it's what matters.

Mind you, I do agree that there's an objective aspect to art, as I've long ranted about before. But the thing is, the concept of artistic merit (IE, the idea of measuring the art value of something) is pretty much bullshit. Art is complicated and it involves way too many factors, including the subjective ones.

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
LEMadness Nose-Chan from Florida Since: Mar, 2011
Nose-Chan
#50: Jan 2nd 2012 at 7:04:07 AM

[up] Then explain the purpose of classes and schools dedicated to teaching any artistic craft over a long period of time.

Words, words, words.

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