TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Clean up to match new definition NEW CROWNER 03/02/12: Greeneyed Redhead

Go To

Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#451: Jan 15th 2012 at 1:39:22 PM

We are talking about how tropes are used in fiction, and I am pretty sure the most common way of defeating the evil overlord is the hero and his friends defeating him. A mother defeating the evil overlord with her love is rather unusual.

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#452: Jan 15th 2012 at 1:41:52 PM

In the wider context of fiction that's probably a relatively common occurance, since fiction sensationalises. Nevertheless, it's still generally presented as a special act of sacrifice in-universe.

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#453: Jan 15th 2012 at 1:42:44 PM

[up][up], [up]But that doesn't need be signified with her specialisms. After all, the story does imply The Power of Love, not "The Power of Lily's Specific Love".

edited 15th Jan '12 1:43:17 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
DrMcNinja Batman Since: May, 2011
Batman
#454: Jan 15th 2012 at 1:45:51 PM

The fact that Evil Overlords aren't the same way they are in fiction doesn't mean they don't exist.

My grandmother suffered of hunger when Francisco Franco took over Spain, in the postwar period. Her mother, my greatgrandmother, refused to eat so my grandmother could. For over two weeks. She could have died and she was willing to do the sacrifice. Thanks to a stupid guy who thought that he was the best ruler ever.

And now that you know shut up about it. I know more similar histories, so if you're lucky enough to not have suffered similar things I'm glad for you, but don't imply that I don't know what I talk about anymore.

There are no heroes left in Man.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#455: Jan 15th 2012 at 1:46:28 PM

^^ Yes, but there's rather more to her specialness than that.

But setting specific examples aside, my point was that the trope is used to suggest that a character might be special, or to accentuate the specialness of a character, not that it's proof of specialness or intrinsically tied to whatever special properties the character might possess.

Um. Ninja'd.

Dr. Mcninja, I'm very sorry I offended you, and I'm very sorry that this happened.

But I'm afraid that still has nothing to do with what anyone was talking about, and you are still accusing us of making arguments that nobody made! I don't know how I can make this any clearer to you.

edited 15th Jan '12 1:48:29 PM by BobbyG

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#456: Jan 15th 2012 at 1:49:17 PM

"But setting specific examples aside, my point was that the trope is used to suggest that a character might be special, or to accentuate the specialness of a character, not that it's proof of specialness or intrinsically tied to whatever special properties the character might possess."

I don't think it works that way. It's exotic, but not that exotic. Not to the point where it calls out specialness, especially in other works where a lot of other characters are special in other and/or similar ways.

edited 15th Jan '12 1:49:55 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#457: Jan 15th 2012 at 2:09:39 PM

Special is relative, of course. In a universe where half the rest of the cast has really improabable eye and hair colours, then I can agree that a GERH wouldn't stand out.

Still, I do think it's sufficiently exotic that it evokes, or suggests, or accentuates, the specialness of a character, in other contexts.

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#458: Jan 15th 2012 at 2:18:56 PM

I still say plain "show creators like it for significant characters" would work.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#459: Jan 15th 2012 at 2:27:05 PM

That's not a dreadful suggestion, I'll admit.

The problem I have with that is that it only describes the what, and makes no effort to understand the why.

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff
TTurtle Since: Aug, 2010
#460: Jan 15th 2012 at 2:32:05 PM

[up][up]

I think I could get behind this definition: "show creators like it for significant characters." It's pretty similar to one we've been tossing about, but it avoids words like "special" or "other."

NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#461: Jan 15th 2012 at 3:56:34 PM

Stories treat characters with GERH as different and than the other characters as better or idealized or more significant. It's objective, as long as you're paying attention to how the story treats characters. If the story plays up the things the GERH does as great or wonderful or goes out of it's way to explain how the GERH is different than the rest of the cast in some way, than it's this trope. If random satellite character is a GERH who walks in and out for the story everyonce in a while and isn't given much attention, it isn't this trope. The reason you can tell it's a trope, is because the second possibility almost never happens like it does with any other combination of hair and eye color.

edited 15th Jan '12 3:57:28 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#462: Jan 15th 2012 at 7:26:14 PM

In a universe where half the rest of the cast has really improabable eye and hair colours, then I can agree that a GERH wouldn't stand out.

Hm, perhaps we're missing a contrasting trope. Anime in particular uses it almost as a back ground, but there's a few works which intentionally don't (such as Inu Yasha where all the normal humans have black hair unless they're old and grey).

Fight smart, not fair.
NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#463: Jan 15th 2012 at 7:27:19 PM

Personally I wouldn't think this trope would apply all that much to anime.

edited 15th Jan '12 7:27:27 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#464: Jan 15th 2012 at 7:29:18 PM

Yeah, when anything goes with hair and eye colors, we could more safely rule this out with those works.

But if we only get occasional impossible colors, then it could still apply.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#465: Jan 15th 2012 at 7:37:14 PM

I think this trope applies to some anime. Aside from Sakura, Naruto has almost no one with an unnatural hair colour. Even hers could be looked at as a sort of strawberry-blond. Therefore when Gaara has this colouring he actually stands out.

If everyone has crazy colouring it loses the impact though. It just needs to be an anime that doesn't have technicolour hair and eyes on it's cast.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#466: Jan 15th 2012 at 7:40:31 PM

I actually think it applies to Yu Yu Hakusho because the only characters with technicolor hair are yokai. All the human characters have real hair and eye colors. This trope was a way to show Kurama was different, because while he is inhabiting/fused with a human, she's still magic and originally was a yokai, so he has a rare and unusual hair and eyes color but not one outside the realm of human possibility.

edited 15th Jan '12 7:40:56 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#467: Jan 15th 2012 at 8:07:21 PM

I don't mean that to apply to anime in generally, but some anime use a scattering of "naturalish" colors (including stuff like Purple Is the New Black or albinism) while others will use really wild hair colors like a green to blue gradient. Hence my belief that Anime is likely to use slightly different tropes because they use different mindsets when selecting them. Probably the most notable is the blue eyed redhead from my experience. Blue and red seem to have a bit more connotation of contrast in Japan (see Red Oni, Blue Oni) and this may be over riding the natural green/red contrast in their minds. Or, blue eyes is code for "European decent". I am, however, basically just looking at vaguely random tropes.

Also: on Yu Yu Hakusho, beam sword guy (can't remember his name) is supposed to be a delinquent, who, in Japan, have been known for bleaching their hair to funky orange blond colors.

Fight smart, not fair.
NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#468: Jan 15th 2012 at 8:34:13 PM

I definitely won't say this can't apply to anime, just that it usually doesn't, especially if unnatural hair colors are common to all characters in the work.

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#469: Jan 15th 2012 at 8:38:22 PM

Agreed on that point.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#470: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:08:43 PM

I think it depends on how... colorful it is. Something like Mermaid Melody Pichi Pichi Pitch would certainly not qualify, but something like Silent Mobius might (not that either has any examples that I know of; it's just to show looks of shows can matter).

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#471: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:09:57 PM

Do we need to break that off as its own trope so we can say "when [random hair color in anime trope] is in effect, this trope doesn't apply"?

Fight smart, not fair.
NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#472: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:13:29 PM

I think that already has a thread talking about technicolor hair and such.

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#473: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:14:00 PM

It might be good to make that a trope. You Gotta Have Blue Hair doesn't quite sum it up. It's also something that shows up in Western works as well especially in children's shows, Doug or The Simpsons would be good examples.

It's basically shows were the colour combinations of hair, eyes, and sometimes even skin are so extreme that they don't seem to have any grounding in reality. Amazing Technicolour Cast or something like that.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Flyboy Decemberist from the United States Since: Dec, 2011
Decemberist
#474: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:26:24 PM

As I argued for Sakura Girl, these kinds of tropes are not supposed to be about the simple combination of certain hair/eye/skin colors. They're about the meaning these things symbolize/label, and are representative of. If there is no meaning behind it, then it's just a character that happens to have red hair and green eyes, which is irrelevant.

So, if there is some kind of particular, consistent symbolization, characterization, and such that go with it, which it is immediately indicative of, then it should be changed to reflect that specifically, and renamed so we know it's about that, and that the green eyes and red hair are incidental labels or manifestations of that due to the author providing a visual shorthand for his or her intended meaning.

(Obvious Thread Hop).

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#475: Jan 15th 2012 at 9:32:31 PM

[up]I so agree.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

AlternativeTitles: GreeneyedRedhead
2nd Mar '12 6:51:34 AM

Crown Description:

Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.

Total posts: 607
Top