To be honest, I've begun to feel constrained with the emphasis on "not being a dick" and "no negativity". It's resulted in some really passive aggressive actions to "avoid confrontation", which isn't the same thing as being a dick or negative, and is actually prohibited in the forum rules list. But since the forum rules list
was created a shade over one year ago, and isn't on the main wiki where people can easily access it even as a subsection on the Administrative Policy page
, which is itself buried rather well, no one realizes that it is against the rules. Therefore, they don't stop themselves and confront people in a productive manner, or report an incident when they see it, so it keeps going on unless a mod happens across the post.
Speaking of mods, I don't feel comfortable with any of them. Locking threads is one thing and I'd be surprised if they didn't have the ability, but actually blanking offensive posts means that there's no way people can defend themselves if they are wrongly accused or banned. And any attempt to give constructive criticism on the administrative policy/rules list tends to get blanked with or without a ban from whoever posted it.
I've also noticed that people tend to be called out for stating their opinion, not because "their argument is unsound" or "they've missed the point", but because they're "being too blunt/mean". And even if they are wrong, the blame is put on whoever stated their opinion for working off faulty or incomplete information, rather than whoever provided the faulty/incomplete information in the first place. This has happened several times, including to me. The message it gives is, no matter how unintended, "You can express as many misinformed opinions as you'd like, as long as you're nice about it. If you're right about something, you still need to tread carefully because you'll get thumped or banned if someone decides you're being mean."
Also, I think forum heralds are completely unnecessary.
Don't get me wrong, I still like posting here and have no particular intention of leaving, unless this post gets thumped or I get banned. It's just that I think the priorities of Tv Tropes as a whole are either misaligned or poorly stated, and this is why other sites mock us for being a rules-less hugbox dominated by hypocritical/lazy/all-powerful/mood-swingy/what have you mods.
Administrators deal with the administration aspect of the site. Money, domain, software and so on.
Moderators just deal with keeping the users in control and enforcing the rules.
"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.Different mods inspire different feelings. Fast Eddie is god, Maddy is a nice librarian who will help you find what you need, and if you don't act nice, shush you TO DEATH, Bobby G is your crazy unle who somehow got put in charge of a store, and now runs it well, but just as silly as he likes, etc.
Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.![]()
Again, personalities.
Y'know, putting the rules on the wiki proper mightn't be a bad idea. It honestly never occurred to me.
I don't think the rules are exactly hard to find, though. I mean, there's a link to them at the top of the "add post" screen; that's not what you'd call concealed.
The rules could also do with reform IMO, but whenever we discuss this we never seem to arrive at anything concrete and so no change gets made.
Sorry to hear that.
I think we could certainly stand to use thumps and skullfuckings less than we currently do. The latter, in particular, should really only be used for spambots and such, IMO.
I don't think it's necessary to tread all that carefully. Politeness costs nothing, and if people are too afraid of ridicule or flaming to talk about things which they don't understand they're unlikely to ever learn any better.
O_O;
TBH I think I'm probably more of a student teacher. Or a work experience boy.
Re: consistency, there's also the issue that we have differing standards. This is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, I think I have a reputation, on the mod board, for a "gentle" or "light" approach to moderation. All well and good, but sometimes it's necessary to be ruthless.
Over time I think we've grown a little more similar and consistent, if it helps.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffI personally like the emphasis on not being a dick. Too many forums I've been to seem to hate everything that's popular (or everything period) and are quite irritating. Also I never understand why people think that the mods here all so mean and ban everyone who even might say something mean. Who exactly have they banned for no reason whatsoever? If someone is banned, usually they said something that was against the rules.
I think "don't be a dick" is a pretty good standard for a board like this one (though it couldn't be our only standard), and I agree with Atticus that it's better to politely inform somebody than to be rude to them.
Most of the more controversial bans have involved a troper being banned while or after (not, as is sometimes claimed, for) criticising the site. That there actually have been incidents where a troper criticising the site has been banned mistakenly, as with Anne Beeche's first ban when she was mistaken for an SA troll, certainly hasn't helped matters.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffIf you're not trying to add a post, the rules might as well be concealed because they are not:
- At the top toolbar on the homepage.
- One of the links in the Troperville frame.
- Given a link in any of the pages on the Troperville frame.
It took me half an hour of googling before I sighed, clicked the button, and saw the banner. That is not an example of efficient display.
And for what it's worth, I never said to strike "Don't be a dick" from the rules. I just said that when you get to creating a welcome committee for new users that isn't as useful as anyone thought it would be
, maybe the site is giving "Don't be a dick" way too much emphasis and it should go on the backburner.
Most forums I've seen just keep their rules posts in a pinned thread, though they usually have said thread pinned at the top of every subforum.
I know you didn't say to strike "don't be a dick" from the rules.
I don't think the forum herald thing really has a lot to do with that, though. That's more about welcoming new people into the forums, which given that the entire point of the forums (minus Wiki and Forums section) is to be a fun, friendly community hangout, doesn't strike me as a bad idea in principle, even if it's ineffectual in practice.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffThe forum heralds has everything to do with the policy. There's making a fun, friendly hangout full of people who are not dicks, which I can get behind. Then there's leading users by the hand and sheltering them from any sort of negativity whatsoever so that at the first sign of mere bluntness they don't know how to react.
And if this:
Causes a strong correlation between "criticizing the site" and "being banned", I like to think that it is an understandable association, and somehow the mods should clear this up so that we won't continue to be seen as being almost Orwellian in our eagerness to make TvT a family-friendly site.
Give it time to do what?
I agree one hundred per cent with this.
We've had people being banned just for being suspected of being an SA regular because they complained about the way things are done here.
The problems with this are: One: Someone shouldn't be judged by the sites they frequent, whether SA or otherwise
and two: Criticism shouldn't be silenced in such a forceful fashion just because you don't particularly like the source.
"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.

My original account has a lot of postcounts. This? Not so much.
Post counts in a forum can be a bad thing, because forum regulars would unconsciously treat 'the guy with 3 posts who's been there for 2 years contributing to the wiki and lurking about the forums' as a noob.
Without a postcount, it's easier to treat everyone as an equal.
edited 2nd Jan '12 1:39:10 PM by MotorRunner
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