Trails franchise (Trails In The Sky, Trails Of Cold Steel etc)

Taking my “unifying people through force idea” a bit further, what if he had viewed THAT as the only way to stop the curse? A belief that by crushing everyone and making them a part of the Empire, the curse could no longer exist? “And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer,” that sort of thing.

I mean, I actually don’t think Ishmelga is the problem, insofar as I do think that having the guiding force of an expansionist empire being this malicious, power-hungry demon thing isn’t a bad idea. I just think that he and Osborne should be on the same page, whether willingly or through having his spirit broken.

Apologies for the double post, but I just wanted to say that I've finished the game. A few thoughts:

• Related to what I mentioned above, Ishmelga saying that war and strife are what allows humanity to progress is a good ideal for Class VII to fight against, but shouldn't Osborne have been the one saying it? Again, it didn't have to be all there was to him - they could have had him regret his actions in the end and part with Rean on good terms, I think - but I think it would have been better than him being Good All Along, I feel (and even that felt like it wasn't conveyed all that well). Oh well, in the end it was only a part of the whole picture - I'm fine just ignoring it or pretending my preferred way was what happened. I don't think Osborne will especially relevant in the future, after all.

• I am 95% certain that the First Anguis shares his English voice actor with Nielsen. I believe this was true of the Japanese version as well, so as far as I'm concerned, they are one and the same until proven otherwise. Would have been cool if they had just full on revealed it at the end, for one last big reveal after the credits (alongside the Grandmaster, of course).

• Speaking of which, I keep seeing references to the Eternal Recurrence Plan being the final phase of the Orpheus Final Plan, but I don't recall the Grandmaster saying anything of the sort? Was that something in the Japanese version?

Anyway, I overall liked the ending quite a bit. The stuff with Osborne brings it down somewhat, but I think overall the whole thing is a fairly satisfying conclusion. Looking forward to Hajimari getting localized...whenever that may be.

I haven't reached Cold Steel IV yet, but everything I know about it sounds like Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia.

Mad god (Duma/Ishmelga) believes strife and war makes humanity stronger, and has been steering a nation from the shadows to enforce that belief. Imposing political figure (Rudolf/Osborne) serves mad god, under the guise of being a devout follower, but is secretly trying to destroy said god once and for all even if the world hates him. Ultimately entrusts that duty to his own long-lost son (Alm/Rean), who is forced to kill his own father before slaying the mad god. An actual devout believer (Jedah/Black Alberich) who is the father of another party member (Sonya/Alisa) works with the political figure unaware of his impending betrayal, and harries the heroes every step of the way. They also clash with the surrogate "son" of the political figure, an arrogant nobleman (Berkut/Rufus) who eventually goes off the deep end and murders a woman (Rinea/Arianrhod) just for power, before being defeated by his own cousin (Alm again/Jusis).

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Apr 26th 2021 at 3:49:09 PM

Huh.

Duma is a better character than Ishmelga, at least.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Apr 26th 2021 at 4:01:14 AM

I'm bookmarking these pages so I can come back and read them once I've actually finished the Cold Steel games.

Wise choice. I look forward to getting your input on all of these.

Anyway, a few questions that came to mind:

• Was it ever said when Sara became an A-Rank Bracer? I at first thought she was 16, but further research leads me to believe I was mistaken there. I understand that she holds the record for the youngest ever until a new character in Hajimari breaks her record. I'm mostly using this to calculate whether said character is one of the new party members in Kuro, since we know the specific ages of at least four more characters.

• Speaking of which, I heard somewhere that this piece of concept art◊ of Aaron from Kuro has some characters that fans will recognize in the background. I see Cao a bit further in the back, and I'm pretty sure the two characters on the far right are Jack and Halle from Gambler Jack, but is there anyone else? I'm specifically looking at the couple right on Aaron's left, and the old guy in the doorway to the far left.

• One last thing is more of a personal request - does anyone know of any good games that a fan of Trails would enjoy? I've already played Tokyo Xanadu and enjoyed that, but I'm curious if there are any other games like it. Something similar to Cold Steel, along with the Persona games and Fire Emblem: Three Houses. Something with a real sense of time progression, I guess. I also won't object to something similar to Trails in the Sky or the Crossbell games.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Apr 26th 2021 at 5:50:33 AM

Does anyone know if Hajimari is a good introduction to the series? I know it's not out yet but I know Japan is getting a Switch version later this year and I'm hoping that'll come over here. Don't want to jump in the middle of a series though which is why I've skipped the games already out on Switch.

Edited by Chariot on Apr 26th 2021 at 5:47:32 AM

Ys VIII and Ys IX, aka the otehr Falcom flagship series. It's action based, but those two games border on being Metroidvanias and I can vouch that at least VIII is REALLY good.

Same engine as the Cold Steel games too.

Absolutely not. It's pretty much the epilogue/interim game of TWO arcs. You won't understand anything.

Edited by Makir on Apr 26th 2021 at 11:48:25 AM

Your best bet is probably waiting to see if the Switch port of Cold Steel I and II get brought over.

Hmm, I'll keep that in mind. Anything turn-based to recommend, though?

Honestly? Dragon Quest XI, one of the better Turn-based RPG to come in recent years. Be sure to get the Definitive Edition though, it adds a lot of stuff.

Suikoden 1-3 and 5. They were the games that inspired most of Trails' story telling and such.

Ah, nice. I've been thinking about playing it - I'll consider giving it a go.

Hm, I've heard a bit about those games. Where can they be played?

I mean, a lot of what directly inspired Trails was Gagharv, but those really aren't worth playing these days.

Finished Act 1 of Cold Steel IV! I was a bit slow though.

Lastly, a few broader things about the start of the game. A bit more negative compared to the previous stuff.

I'm not too enthused by having a bunch of characters to pick from so early in the game. Especially in Crossbell where the game makes it clear you get some extra scenes with either Jusis or Alisa. Would have been much better if the game just said you're taking the two with you. I get its meant to encourage replays, but I think its a bad idea.

I also noticed it a few times but it really felt like the reasoning for searching for Rean before doing much else was a bit weak. I mean, there is the obvious that the other side has 5 then 6 of the Divine Knights. But the game kind of treats it in a much more "Rean will bring everyone together" kind of way and doesn't mention the strategic value of Valimar. Which feels kind of lackluster given how many allies and party members they have right now. I don't disagree it should be a big goal, but so far it seems like finding the Singularities is just about that goal. I hope there were other reasons too or actions Rose was taking to help prepare.

Also this is more of a personal preference, but I think Alisa should have been the one to get the last Divine Knight. I think it would have worked really well given how many connections she has to the conflict and the fact she's essentially the main love interest of Rean. Like she has Sharon, and both of her parents as members of the other side. Which I think is more than anyone else. Plus I've noticed her equipment tends to emphasize Space Arts and she already had some experience with the Orbal Gear.

Obviously there's still a lot of the game to go so I could be off base, but I think making her more important to the conflict and working in using another Knight to track down Rean would have been a good way to go about things. Plus 6/7 Chevaliers are guys. Could use a better gender balance.

Edited by 32ndfreeze on Apr 27th 2021 at 1:13:51 AM

(No spoilers for you here, just some clarifications here and there.)

As far as I’m aware, only the women of the village actually have magic, but everyone is an equal and valuable member of the clan. I know at least one of the guys does some scouting missions for Rose, and he actually sounds pretty badass from what I recall. I like Eryn - it’s a pretty tight-knit community. I originally was kind of wary about them, especially because there seemed to be some misconceptions that they were responsible for causing the general populace to forget about the Divine Knights after the War of the Lions, but I don’t believe that was the case.

As for Estelle, she never did get a title of her own, now that I recall.

I do not believe they correspond to the elements, actually (and if they did, would Arianrhod’s be Mirage, since it’s silver?). It feels like it could work for the most part, but then you’ve got Zector, who’s purple, and he just kind of throws the whole pattern out of whack.

As for you wanting Alisa to get the last Divine Knight, I’ll admit it’s an interesting idea. That being said, while I agree with you on the gender ratio, I don’t think the plot really has space for a new Divine Knight going to the protagonists. And in any case, given future plot developments that I won’t go into here, I can understand why they chose to give it to the character they did.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Apr 26th 2021 at 12:14:21 PM

Zector was throwing me off, but I didn't want to double check the colours of the others because spoilers. But that's good to know.

As well as the other clarifications you made.

When it comes to Eryn I'm also a fan of the community, although I love all the hub towns.

Edited by 32ndfreeze on Apr 27th 2021 at 3:57:49 AM

Hub towns are always nice, though I feel like I got a better sense of the community in Eryn than I did in Leeves and Trista. I do suppose you could argue that Thors is more of the hub town than the towns themselves, in which case I'd probably rate them higher, particularly the Branch Campus.

Anyway (Cold Steel IV spoilers to follow for those still not caught up), I've been giving some thought to Osborne's portrayal, and I think I've come up with an interpretation that alleviates my issues with it somewhat. Basically, when Osborne submits himself to Ishmelga and agrees to become his Awakener in exchange for Rean's life, this basically renders him unable to oppose him at all, even if his strong will prevents him from being corrupted. I don't know if he was capable of doing so at all or what would have happened if he tried, but let's assume that if he did try, he would have been killed, and Ishmelga and Black Alberich would have found someone else to do their dirty work - it's better for him to be with someone who is capable of resisting him. The most he can actually do is not act on Ishmelga's behalf, and even then, only when it makes sense for him to do so (for example, he can't not start a war with Calvard when the opportunity presents itself).

So basically, all he can read do is trust that someone would emerge to oppose him, with that someone eventually being Olivert, Class VII, and everyone else who would eventually form Radiant Wings. This means that Olivert isn't misguided as discussed earlier, as without his actions Osborne would have just continued to fulfill Ishmelga's will with no one to stop him (except maybe Arianrhod, but who knows how that would have shook out.).

I suppose I was also wondering why Osborne didn't just throw the fight once Rean is the only one left, but now that I think back to how the Rivalries and Rose's trial in the Luna Sanctuary worked, even if you and your opponent are in agreement, the ritual won't work if you don't actually try to kick the teeth out of each other. Not sure how I feel about a war being necessary to actually defeat Ishmelga - I would have stated that Olivert's Third Way could have at least mitigated things if Osborne hadn't outplayed him, or Dreichels could have worked with Rose to at least try to find a solution if they had been on the same page. But hey, maybe the Empire needs a swift kick in the balls before it can actually change for the better - sometimes it's just too late for peaceful methods to work. And anyway, Rean says that they'll be creating a new future, presumably one where they don't have to fight a war to make a better world (or at least a better Erebonia - who knows what's going to happen everywhere else).

If there is a problem here, it's that I still think that the narrative would have been stronger if Osborne believed in his own rhetoric (though I suppose he is a politician, har har). But even if he doesn't speak for himself, he does speak for the worst parts of Erebonian society (or at least the expansionist guys - the assholes in the nobility are their own problem). After all, even when Ishmelga was revealed to be the mastermind, it was pointed out that he did so by manipulating the faults of humans, not by outright turning them into mindless slaves. It's a problem bigger than any one man, in other words. So even if Osborne doesn't personally desire, say, the annexation of Crossbell, he speaks for the many that do.

So all in all, I think Osborne was a good man struck with a sudden tragedy, and in his grief gave into weakness and was trapped in a position where he could only hope that someone would emerge to oppose him. I do think it would have been better if that tragedy had prompted him to take drastic measures, only for him to slowly have his sense of purpose corrupted over time (maybe in this case, Ishmelga is a bit more passive, craving Dreichels as his Awakener but not actively influencing Erebonia - his greed and malice are simply so powerful that they infect those around him). Osborne could still have come to his senses after fighting Rean, and later aided and reconciled with him in spirit form. Still, I think that this interpretation was broadly what Falcom was going for, even if it's a bit muddled. I could be wrong, I suppose, but even if I am, I think this makes what we got a bit more palatable than at first glance.

I feel like this is more or less a correct interpretation of Osborne and what I think the writers were going for. His antagonizing, even in petty ways like how he insults New Class VII when he first encounters them in III, was both a way to appease Ishmelga and to make sure that there would be somebody that would eventually destroy both him and Ishmelga. It was pretty much a case of I Cannot Self-Terminate and Suicide by Cop. Despite his obviously destructive actions he did them to take responsability and destroy the Curse, which is why I believe the characters in-universe have respect for him despite it all.

So, this occurred to me the other day, but isn’t Ishmelga basically Father from Fullmetal Alchemist? Not only do they look remarkably similar in their base forms, but they also have the same M.O. of manipulating an empire to start wars in order to become a god, and have similarly pathetic ends. Of course, I think Father is better characterized, and he doesn’t rely on supernatural means to get people to do what he wants.

Funnily enough, one major part of Father’s plan - turning a country into a giant alchemical circle - was done by the Crois family.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Apr 27th 2021 at 5:41:02 AM

In CSII, I'm not entirely sure why Class VII doesn't outright ally with the Imperial army. They've already worked with them twice by the end of Act I, they don't have any quarrel with them. Two of your party members have close ties to members of the Imperial army (Elliot, Gaius), one has ties to the Reformist faction (Machias), and two are members of the RCMP (Claire, Millium). The only explanation they give is that siding with the army "doesn't feel right". It feels like they're trying to Take a Third Option because that's what the heroes are "supposed" to do in a story like this.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on Apr 27th 2021 at 6:28:53 AM

It is admittedly a bit awkward, but I think the general intention is that if they joined up with the army, they’d have to go by their chain of command, which could run counter to their own objectives. I’d say that later on they make it more clear that (no real spoilers here, but tagging it just in case) their primary goal is to help the citizenry, which the army is not necessarily in the position to do. This is the sort of thing the Bracer Guild would usually do, but since they’re not allowed in the Empire anymore, they have to fill the void (after all, the Bracer Guild was a primary inspiration from Class VII). The game says that they’re a neutral faction, but “independent” would be a better way to describe it.

Actually, how far in the game are you? I might be able to elaborate a bit more depending on what you’ve already seen.

Side note: Millium works with Claire a lot and is friends with her, but she’s not actually a member of the Railway Military Police. They ARE both Ironbloods, Osborne’s handpicked young protégés.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Apr 27th 2021 at 10:33:25 AM

I've just finished Act 1 of the game.

Ah, I see. How did it end? I’m trying to figure out whether you’ve reached an important shift in the plot - it’s been awhile since I’ve played it.

Well, basically, the Noble Alliance showed up at Ymir, kicked everybody's asses, and made Rean leave on the Pentagruel with them.