Terminator 2: Judgment Day

^ I was thinking that myself when I wrote it, but it is when all terminator robots got the same qualities.

^^ I know a lot of people complained about not keeping Furlong, but I think he was going through Robert Downey Jr style drug problems and I'm not convinced he could have made the character as written in the movie much better. I do like an interpretation of John Conner in the movie being that he spent his whole life living off the grid, waiting for Judgement Day and when the date came and went he became much like his mom, a pretty messed up individual (and high on veterinarian pain pills during the movie).

edited 12th Jan '12 4:43:08 PM by KJMackley

I hate Terminator 3. Salvation is forgettable, but I can still watch it without being put into a frothing rage of pure   hatred   . The ending of Terminator 3 is a big FUCK YOU to the ending of Terminator 2.

edited 14th Jan '12 3:27:25 PM by Scardoll

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.

James Cameron actually liked Terminator 3. He said that though it wasn't the direction he would have taken the series that it was still an enjoyable action film.

James Rolfe (The Angry Video Game Nerd) also loved it.

edited 14th Jan '12 6:59:11 PM by Buscemi

More Buscemi at http://forum.reelsociety.com/

James Cameron also liked Alien Vs Predator. Not holding that against the guy or his opinions. Just saying that sometimes, not even our favorite filmmakers will share opinions with the rest of us.

A fistful of me.

I just mentioned the anecdote to get people to be quiet. We really shouldn't complain about sequels or adaptations if the creator sees nothing wrong with them.

More Buscemi at http://forum.reelsociety.com/

We shouldn't blindly follow the opinion of a creator.

I'm fairly certain George Lucas sees nothing wrong with the Star Wars prequels or Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Besides, it's healthy to look at films- even the ones you like- with a critical eye. For example, I'll be the first to admit that Raiders of the Lost Ark, one of my favorite films, suffers from a dip in the pacing during the part between the truck chase and the opening of the Ark of the Covenant.

edited 14th Jan '12 7:05:46 PM by RLNice

A fistful of me.

The Terminator has one of the best car chases in an action movie. Why? Because it feels like a car chase, not like a dune buggy or RC toy race. Cars have weight, they don't just go flying around everywhere ignoring the laws of physics at the slightest touch or exploding because Every Ford Is A Pinto.

Well, you failed at that, since you just made me decide to list down some of the things I hate about Terminator 3. I'm still gonna spoiler it for the rest of you, but that's just because I'm too compassionate.

   Warning: Contains Cameron Contradicting Truth   

The entire fucking movie.

John Connor was more pathetic as an adult than a kid, and that's one hell of a fucking achievement.

I swear to God, they used a game of darts to determine what their villain would be. She's a Terminator... But she's got boobies! Instead of shapeshifting or an endoskeleton... She's got both! And she can manipulate machines because fuck, what does this even have to do with the premise?

Oh look, a generic, boring, I-couldn't-care-less love interest.

Sarah Connor died of illness=She wasn't willing to appear in this fucking mess.

This movie is just Terminators hit by cars. It's like they said, "Hey, you know what were popular in the last Terminator films? The car chases!

The plot did fuckall for the franchise.

The Terminators come with fucking nukes powering them? That's convenient and not just a hackneyed Checkhov's Gun.

Apparently, police cars are controlled by computers in the far-off time of 2004.

Fucking magnets, how do they work?

This movie's plot is just Terminator 2, but worse. Terminator 2 was The Terminator, but more 90's. So this is a fucking retread of a retread.

It made me use the word fuck way too many times.

edited 15th Jan '12 12:23:02 AM by Scardoll

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.

And the ending of Salvation is a fuck you to the entire series.

Skynet TALKS. And does a stereotypical evil villain speech to boot. All it was lacking was the mustache twirl and stroking a cat.

They couldn't have botched the franchise's villain more if they tried.

Heck, Skynet tries to PERSUADE Marcus! It built him! Why would it care if Marcus joins its side? Is Skynet lonely? Just turn him off and do what you have to do. But no, Skynet's got an ego now, it needs to boast and explain its evil plan to Marcus (after repairing him for some reason), then it needs to try to convince him, rather than, ya know, never reactivating him after he did his part.

edited 15th Jan '12 1:12:15 AM by Ghilz

Ouch, thanks for making me realize that Salvation also was a giant fuck you.

The worst part is that it's completely unnecessary. Skynet's a computer, it doesn't need to talk or make facial expressions or whatever. Just have it download the information into Marcus or show it all on a giant data slate or just   OBLITERATE THE STUPID FUCKER   because seriously you have an army of robots, why do you need one that still has its weak fleshy parts?

Now I have three too many "fuck you"s in my life (With two of them being related to movies of my childhood).

edited 15th Jan '12 2:47:19 AM by Scardoll

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.

Well...now I'm glad I never saw Terminator 3 or 4.

I get the impression that James Cameron is a guy who just loves movies, so long as they are competently made from a technical standpoint. Both Terminator 3 and Aliens Vs Predator made story mistakes but still had some memorable action set-pieces. The truth is the vast majority of movies aren't So Bad Its Horrible but So Okay, It's Average, but the way the internet and fans work if it isn't So Cool Its Awesome it must be horrible. Cameron also praised Transformers Dark Of The Moon, and was the person to convince Michael Bay to go 3D.

I loved Alien Vs Predator. I hope that doesn't fuck up your point too much.

Jesus saves. Gretzky steals, he scores!

Salvation isn't really bad (Except for the ending and one massive plothole. But at least it had ambitions and took risks, while T3 was content to just follow the formula). The main issue is that inside Salvation lies the seed of a much better film, and you pine for What Could Have Been.

The Film opens with Marcus on Death Row, and he's accepting of his fate, saying he needs to die for what he did to his brother. How did he kill him? How did he come to accept his guilt? Feels like this should be an entire movie on his own. Then we see Marcus in the future, trying to come to grip with waking up After the End, his own nature, and the fact that he's been given a second chance he never expected, an opportunity to find redemption. And again, this is material for a GREAT film. But the film keeps cutting back to a disappointing plot about John Connor, who is boring as fuck, and his rise to become leader of the Resistance. And we get Michael Ironside phoning in a bland, boring performance. The movie should have been about Marcus. With John only appearing at the end to may tie this with the main franchise's plot. But Marcus is an interesting character, full of potential, and Sam Worthington actually delivers a really good performance. One can't stop looking at Salvation, and seeing in it the stuff to make an even better movie that would have pushed the franchise further.

As for the plot hole: How does Skynet know Kyle's relation to John Connor? And since it does, why doesn't it kill him the moment it has Kyle? It's been fully willing to go after John's mom, so now that it has his dad, it decide to turn into a bond villain and use him as bait to kill John in a far more circuitous manner?

edited 16th Jan '12 1:50:01 AM by Ghilz

James Cameron is probably one of my favourite directors (albeit mostly for Aliens and the first and second Terminator films, which constitute some of my favourite films ever made), but damn his opinions suck.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

@Ghilz - I'm amazed you were able to see an actually decent movie in that morass that was Salvation.

I'm not being snide, I mean you clearly have a better grasp of story to have seen those dangling, unfinished threads.

It was an honor

It's the frustrating part. I mean, T3 couldn't be great. At best it could be decent. It like warm leftovers or comfort food. Salvation had the potential to be a great Terminator Movie, one of the best sequels of the decade. But it gave attention to all the wrong parts. It should've been Marcus' story, with John Connor as some distant, almost mythical figure him and Kyle hear about, or someone who only shows up at the end, only to appear at the end as Marcus does his necessary sacrifice and symbolically passes the job of being Kyle's protector and mentor off to John, bringing the series full circle. For a movie called "Salvation", Marcus' salvation barely figures in the actual film. We know nothing of what led him to be here. He spends most of the movie confused as to wtf is going on. His sacrifice in the end is almost meaningless. Give us flashbacks to how Marcus killed his brother. Build up a purpose for him to redeem himself by sacrificing his life. And that sacrifice should've been for Kyle, not John.

I swear that I heard, at some point, John Connor was going to be portrayed as the sort of figure you mentioned.

Oh, I got no doubt. Then they got Christian Bale, fresh of the Batman films, and no doubt contract concessions were made and BAM John Connor takes up half of the goddamn movie with a subplot that goes nowhere.

It pains me that that sounds so accurate.

It was an honor

That's what happens when a script is written by commitee, with a half dozen people making demands for what has to be in the movie and they try to squeeze in all those different ideas. The "Shutdown Signal" plot, the Kyle Reese plot or the "Biological Terminator" plot may have worked as seperate stories, but not when all paired together.

I have to say the two best parts of Salvation was Anton Yelchin as Reese and 1984 Arnold showing up.

How the fuck did they ''do'' that??

Is it sad that "Bale as Connor" aka, "The Goddamned Batman is taking on Skynet!" sounded so much more awesome...than it actually was??

It was an honor

It actually has only two writers. And by WGA standard, the & means they wrote it as a team (meaning one didn't re-write the other's script).

John Brancato & Michael Ferris.

Then again, these guys, working together gave us T3 AND Catwoman. So it might just be a genuine lack of talent.

Two credited writers.

Writers are not immune to demands from a director, producer or egotistical actor. They are credited for writing the thing but that doesn't mean everything in there is their idea and no one can change it.